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-   -   Base (http://www.bikeforums.net/33-road-bike-racing/917029-base.html)

Ygduf 11-08-13 01:24 PM

google alert site:bikeforums.net AND "strava" ?

misterwaterfall 11-08-13 01:31 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ygduf (Post 16230384)
strava segment?

and what's the bet, lose and you get naked, win and you both get naked?!

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=349823

mattm 11-08-13 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ygduf (Post 16230433)
google alert site:bikeforums.net AND "strava" ?

Ha - that would probably break either Google or my inbox!

thechemist 11-08-13 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkwaki (Post 16230370)
It's about 10-11% :)

half a mile 10-11% yea that sounds like my stomping grounds:(
I will be heading to chattanooga a bit more though come build time.

revchuck 11-08-13 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ygduf (Post 16230052)
what do you like to do, or consider "base"?

I did the z2forever "base" model last year and came into the season barely able to hang on to a 100-man peloton. After 6 weeks of having my ass kicked, I finally had the VO2 to start racing. This year I am "not changing much" from my usual summer riding, just a small reduction in volume/intensity, but otherwise keeping fitness "up".

Fudgy - fwiw, my second (and last) block of base will be done in the first week of December. My training will then include progressively include less volume and more intensity. I have a B race in mid-February and an A race (105 mile RR) on March 9. I *think* that's how it's supposed to work.

I'm doing the long base miles because I have the time and need the endurance...and because I just wanted to see what it's like.

rkwaki 11-08-13 02:55 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ygduf (Post 16230384)
strava segment?

and what's the bet, lose and you get naked, win and you both get naked?!

Boom I win...
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=349831




Oh, I'm already nekked...

ovoleg 11-08-13 03:09 PM

I'm kind of like the other guy, no real problems with anaerobic ability but aerobically suffer. Looking back a few years before I took a small hiatus, I was in my best fitness when I rode a lot, not necessarily Z2 because I have no idea which zone I was in.

So whats the consensus, cuz everything I've read in Friel's book and other online sources converge on Z2 base is critical in the offseason.

gsteinb 11-08-13 03:11 PM

I'd like a Z2 workout once in a while. My understanding is base is Z3. Z2 is going a bit too hard on a recovery day. Speed work is the stuff that blurs your vision.

rkwaki 11-08-13 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ovoleg (Post 16230776)
I'm kind of like the other guy, no real problems with anaerobic ability but aerobically suffer. Looking back a few years before I took a small hiatus, I was in my best fitness when I rode a lot, not necessarily Z2 because I have no idea which zone I was in.

So whats the consensus, cuz everything I've read in Friel's book and other online sources converge on Z2 base is critical in the offseason.

A lot would depend on your offseason, first race and target races.
My preference is to ride hard, a lot. But I have a huge base from years of stuff.
THere are no other online sources besides this forum :notamused:

rkwaki 11-08-13 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsteinb (Post 16230782)
I'd like a Z2 workout once in a while. My understanding is base is Z3. Z2 is going a bit too hard on a recovery day. Speed work is the stuff that blurs your vision.

I've got your ****ing sweaty DNA all over my PC7. I have taken it to the lab and am going to clone me a little garbear...

gsteinb 11-08-13 03:22 PM

That clone could win some sprints.

rkwaki 11-08-13 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsteinb (Post 16230826)
That clone could win some sprints.

That was pretty funny...
I'm going to tweak him a little bit so that he is taller, bigger, more handsome, smarter and easier to get along with...













Oh ****, that would be my clone :P

Ygduf 11-08-13 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkwaki (Post 16230842)
That was pretty funny...
I'm going to tweak him a little bit so that he is taller, bigger, more handsome, smarter and easier to get along with...

We all know what you were going for.

http://www.bikeforums.net/image.php?...ine=1322842406

rkwaki 11-08-13 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ygduf (Post 16230925)
We all know what you were going for.

http://www.bikeforums.net/image.php?...ine=1322842406

We could all use a little more rockets...

ovoleg 11-08-13 04:23 PM

I guess the way I understand it now is you need a base to be able to hit your targets/power when building in Z3/Z4/Z5/etc, without a base you wont be able to recover between those intervals.

Amirite? I guess it takes tons of hours on the bike to build that.

gsteinb 11-08-13 04:31 PM

You can ride mine.

Jandro 11-08-13 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsteinb (Post 16231014)
You can ride mine.

So considerate!

waterrockets 11-08-13 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkwaki (Post 16230961)
We could all use a little more rockets...

http://www.wundermanreports.com/wp-c...oveRockets.png

Quote:

Originally Posted by ovoleg (Post 16230991)
I guess the way I understand it now is you need a base to be able to hit your targets/power when building in Z3/Z4/Z5/etc, without a base you wont be able to recover between those intervals.

Amirite? I guess it takes tons of hours on the bike to build that.

It's a foundation. Build something big on a weak foundation, and it falls apart.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsteinb (Post 16231014)
You can ride mine.

your what?

gsteinb 11-08-13 06:06 PM

He can ride the tons of hours that I'm not going to.

rankin116 11-08-13 06:46 PM

Oh. I thought you were saying he could ride your rockets...

Racer Ex 11-08-13 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattm (Post 16230354)
Actually I don't think anyone has said that.

Really.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattm (Post 16230354)
What I was asking was when you're doing z2 rides (which is not all the time!), what's the breakdown.

Well darn it, there it is.

My question was simple and without qualification. I didn't write "all the time". And I know what Joe and some of the others say about it. What I'm interested in is if anyone actually thought about it as it might apply to their own program/needs, vs. accepting that you're the generic rider Joe is writing about.

Having actually read your race reports I have a pretty good idea where you're lacking compared to the competition, and what your primary focus was. I would hope that you would too.

Brian had a very good answer as to why/when Z2 helped him, he was doing long climbing road races. Is that your focus for next season?

I've heard some of the other objectives and frankly they make me shake my head a touch. But that just may be some old age thing.

Thing with training is people want to drive from Florida to New York on $200 of gas and decide California is the best route because they never looked at a map.

mattm 11-08-13 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racer Ex (Post 16231470)
Having actually read your race reports I have a pretty good idea where you're lacking compared to the competition, and what your primary focus was. I would hope that you would too.

An outside eye can usually see the forest better - what's your take?

My focus was on crits last year, and next year - but I want to a) not get dropped in longer climby road races like Cascade, b) not suck at TTs so bad, and c) show up at the finish line of any race with more in the tank.

The overall idea of my training so far is to build a "solid base" to increase my FTP. Eventually actual FTP-training will start, but for now I'm laying the foundation. That's the thinking anyway!

The other side of the limiter-coin isn't really physical: not having a team/team mates, not really knowing who's who or having done the course before, and being too hesitant when the time came to really go. Hopefully easier to fix.

Racer Ex 11-08-13 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattm (Post 16231549)
An outside eye can usually see the forest better - what's your take?

Bigger matchbook. 1-3m power and recovery from effort. Bridging drills. Improve your sprint.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattm (Post 16231549)
My focus was on crits last year, and next year

This seems to be wise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattm (Post 16231549)
but I want to

a) not get dropped in longer climby road races like Cascade, b) not suck at TTs so bad, and c) show up at the finish line of any race with more in the tank.

I want to be tall, with a full head of wavy blonde hair, and able to dunk on the best NBA centers.

My experience with real P1/2 climbers is that you would have already been knocking at that door if you were built that way. If by not getting dropped you mean not finishing DFL, not sure the time getting there isn't better spent at what you could be successful at.

"B" is an unknown. Other than States few TT's are longer than 20k, so "real" FTP gains (vs. 20m test/calc) are kinda a waste. Just being better technically (adaptation, pacing, Etc) can often move you up a lot in a TT on the same average wattage. TT's are much more an art form than pure power. Unless you're Tony Martin. Then you just crush them with watts.

Although Tony has a great position as well.

The biggest thing you'd get out of working on TT's is an awareness of how hard you can go and how to sit on the knife edge without falling off. I'm pretty much the guy who always makes the bridge, less because of giant numbers, and more because I can use what I have to the last watt.

You'd also be able to IAB better. This is a huge matchbook saver.

"C" I'd see both my first comment, and suggest that the crits where you'd need more in the tank are probably not going to see much Z2 HR or power. Mostly you'll see a HR banging on 95% or greater and a power curve that looks like stalagmites.

In road races often the fading at the end has more to do with poor race craft. The answer and the question are both in your files.

BTW, if you're not using Hellyer to work on all the above you should be beach slapped.

waterrockets 11-08-13 08:54 PM

good stuff

robabeatle 11-09-13 05:54 AM

Dear 33,

Thank you, again.


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