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Old 11-12-13, 04:21 PM   #176
jsutkeepspining
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Sounds good.

Fwiw I never said anyone should do 8 hours of z2 only a week.. or z2-only for that matter.

Even in the Friel book, a bunch of the workouts in "Base" are around form sprints, cruise intervals, etc.

Build phase is when the real Specificity/intensity happens, at least that's my plan.
It wasn't pointed at you, jsut some clarifying points about what base really should be.
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Old 11-12-13, 04:24 PM   #177
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Thanks guys. I will keep hitting the weights and keep my weight in check. Also, I know that there is no research to support this statement but I think that lifting can help balance the sympathetic (can be overworked through anaerobic training)and parasympathetic systems (can be overworked through aerobic training)and thereby help with hormones. Plus, I just like to push weight around : )
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Old 11-12-13, 04:26 PM   #178
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I have just finished one season of racing and have ridden a bike my whole life plus very active in other sports. I sit easily at about 12% body fat but can get to 8% or so with restriction. I am built like a triathlete.

Here is my dilemma during base building:

Last year during base, I focused on lots of miles around high tempo and dropped a good deal of weight. Frankly, I lost it too fast/not enough protein and lost muscle mass during the process. I was still very fast at the beginning of the season, which is early February here, but it caught up with me trying to hold my weight around 150. By mid season, I was feeling gassed at the end of crits. I so want to be a climber and I can climb decently as I placed 3rd last year in the state hill climb tt (19 miles at about 8%). But the reality is that there are many more crits and so I want to do well there this year. So my team has been consistently putting me into the sprints on the weekend hammerfests and I am doing well and learning. I have begun to lift again and work on sprinting. I know that a caloric surplus is needed to build muscle and I spent much of my twenties lifting, though never trying to get huge.

Long story short: Do I spend the next month eating huge (I am a hardgainer) and lifting etc. then get weight down later or get my weight down now(slowly and lots of protein aka Rkwaki style) while building strength?

I know that there is a lot of controversy regarding lifting but I feel it has helped me already.
Gaining weight wont help your sprint, lifting might add a bit, but sprinting is largly genetic, and positioning. Working on the positioning part is easy, gaining max wattage is much hard (well more like a crap shoot). For example i wrote about how i gained in excess of 200 watts on my max power after a winter of only z2/z3 work, and on the first sprint i did i cracked 1300 versus my max of 1100 back when i was yougner. the change in wattage came from both my genetic and body build, and more importantly my age. 15->16 and 16->17 are huge jumps in terms of ability on the bike (well more like 1->2 1->3 years of riding.
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Old 11-12-13, 04:30 PM   #179
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Thanks guys. I will keep hitting the weights and keep my weight in check. Also, I know that there is no research to support this statement but I think that lifting can help balance the sympathetic (can be overworked through anaerobic training)and parasympathetic systems (can be overworked through aerobic training)and thereby help with hormones. Plus, I just like to push weight around : )
Big words not allowed...
Rkwaki no understand...
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Old 11-12-13, 04:37 PM   #180
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Gaining weight wont help your sprint, lifting might add a bit, but sprinting is largly genetic, and positioning. Working on the positioning part is easy, gaining max wattage is much hard (well more like a crap shoot). For example i wrote about how i gained in excess of 200 watts on my max power after a winter of only z2/z3 work, and on the first sprint i did i cracked 1300 versus my max of 1100 back when i was yougner. the change in wattage came from both my genetic and body build, and more importantly my age. 15->16 and 16->17 are huge jumps in terms of ability on the bike (well more like 1->2 1->3 years of riding.
This is one thing I really am learning.

I changed handlebars, thank you Rotundo, and that feels so much better to rock the bike back and forth. Gained 100 W.
Second, and this is a revelation, is positioning in the field up to the sprint. My top end is not even big but it seems (in my small fishpond) that I am okay at holding a high speed in the km before the sprint and then I am still able to jump and hold power to cross the line.

Thanks jsut.
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Old 11-12-13, 04:38 PM   #181
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Big words not allowed...
Rkwaki no understand...
lol, just a complicated way of saying I like to grunt in front of mirrors.

(I left a big one for you there!)
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Old 11-12-13, 04:39 PM   #182
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This is one thing I really am learning.

I changed handlebars, thank you Rotundo, and that feels so much better to rock the bike back and forth. Gained 100 W.
Second, and this is a revelation is positioning in the field up to the sprint. My top end is not even big but it seems (in my small fishpond) that I am okay at holding a high speed in the km before the sprint and then I am still able to jump and hold power to cross the line.

Thanks jsut.
hahahahahahahaa. next time i give sprinting tips ill remember to mention that
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Old 11-12-13, 04:41 PM   #183
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Any weight/muscle you gain will not turn into sprint power.
When I was doing a lot of gym work, my peak sprint power tracked pretty much linear to the amount of weight I was pushing on certain exercises. Every year for three years. I've seen the same response in other people.
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Old 11-12-13, 04:50 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by robabeatle View Post
Thanks guys. I will keep hitting the weights and keep my weight in check. Also, I know that there is no thinking to support this set of words but I think that lifting can help balance the go-fast-now nerves (can get tired through riding slowly)and the maintenance-of-life nerves (can get tired through riding slowly)and thereby help with the drugs our body makes for us. Plus, I just like to push weight around : )
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Big words not allowed...
Rkwaki no understand...
Fixed above... in the spirit of Up-Goer 5

Last edited by waterrockets; 11-12-13 at 04:54 PM.
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Old 11-12-13, 04:55 PM   #185
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Thanks guys, I'll now return to my lurk mode.
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Old 11-12-13, 05:00 PM   #186
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Thanks guys, I'll now return to my lurk mode.
Thank you...
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Old 11-12-13, 05:12 PM   #187
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When I was doing a lot of gym work, my peak sprint power tracked pretty much linear to the amount of weight I was pushing on certain exercises. Every year for three years. I've seen the same response in other people.
well, definitely don't say which exercises!
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Old 11-12-13, 05:21 PM   #188
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I worked out my sprinting for a solid year when I was like 18 yrs old. Pretty much the only thing I did was go to the park and try to hit 35mph. I'd do that 10-30 times then head home(4 mile ride to the park).

1 yr of that of like 3-5 days a week. You guys got nothing on my training plan.
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Old 11-12-13, 07:24 PM   #189
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well, definitely don't say which exercises!
Sit ups.
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Old 11-12-13, 07:30 PM   #190
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Sit ups.
Now look what you have done. You given him the secret sauce.
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Old 11-12-13, 08:43 PM   #191
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I've also seen a lot of real thin climber types that can't climb...
I resemble that remark.

More seriously, this is why there's no substitute for experience in figuring out where your strengths lie. Going into your first couple of seasons trying to set goals based on your build isn't necessarily productive. I went into my first season thinking I was going to be a strong climber, as it turned out... nope! Being 125 lbs guarantees nothing; it does help if your predispositions run in that direction, though. By the same token, being small doesn't mean you can't sprint either. I'm not a pure sprinter, not even close, but I'm not really any slower than my average peer in my races, despite usually weighing 20-40 lbs less. Like rkwaki is getting at... what's going to work is all about the individual. There's no formula.
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Old 11-13-13, 07:03 AM   #192
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You could ask everyone in the pro peloton and most will tell you they have crappy genetics. No one wants the 'gifted' label.
Incorrect. Cookie monster is proud of his genes.
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Old 11-13-13, 11:51 AM   #193
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Sit ups.

I've been wasting my time with these soup-can wrist curls?!
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Old 11-13-13, 11:54 AM   #194
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I resemble that remark.

More seriously, this is why there's no substitute for experience in figuring out where your strengths lie. Going into your first couple of seasons trying to set goals based on your build isn't necessarily productive. I went into my first season thinking I was going to be a strong climber, as it turned out... nope! Being 125 lbs guarantees nothing; it does help if your predispositions run in that direction, though. By the same token, being small doesn't mean you can't sprint either. I'm not a pure sprinter, not even close, but I'm not really any slower than my average peer in my races, despite usually weighing 20-40 lbs less. Like rkwaki is getting at... what's going to work is all about the individual. There's no formula.
Great post. We've ridden together, I'm exactly built like your average climber but I hold my own while climbing despite weighing 50 pounds more than some...
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Old 11-13-13, 11:55 AM   #195
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I've been wasting my time with these soup-can wrist curls?!
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Old 11-13-13, 11:56 AM   #196
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Old 11-13-13, 03:04 PM   #197
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Old 11-13-13, 03:20 PM   #198
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Freshness Burger...

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Old 11-13-13, 03:38 PM   #199
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...
awesome. kind of reminds me of a story a while back about how al roker had a special room in his house that served as his eating room. no one else was allowed in it, and he could just devour food and make a mess without fear of anyone actually seeing the disgusting display.

tried to do a search for it (couldn't find it), but google turned up this gem which is possibly even more humiliating:
I "pooped my pants" during White House visit

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Old 11-13-13, 09:51 PM   #200
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pic from my Sunday endurance/too-easy-and-not-really base ride.


Jandro is there too.
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