Base
11-08-13, 01:41 PM
#104
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11-08-13, 01:54 PM
#105
OMC
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what do you like to do, or consider "base"?
I did the z2forever "base" model last year and came into the season barely able to hang on to a 100-man peloton. After 6 weeks of having my ass kicked, I finally had the VO2 to start racing. This year I am "not changing much" from my usual summer riding, just a small reduction in volume/intensity, but otherwise keeping fitness "up".
I did the z2forever "base" model last year and came into the season barely able to hang on to a 100-man peloton. After 6 weeks of having my ass kicked, I finally had the VO2 to start racing. This year I am "not changing much" from my usual summer riding, just a small reduction in volume/intensity, but otherwise keeping fitness "up".
I'm doing the long base miles because I have the time and need the endurance...and because I just wanted to see what it's like.
__________________
Regards,
Chuck
Demain, on roule!
Regards,
Chuck
Demain, on roule!
11-08-13, 02:55 PM
#106
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11-08-13, 03:09 PM
#107
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I'm kind of like the other guy, no real problems with anaerobic ability but aerobically suffer. Looking back a few years before I took a small hiatus, I was in my best fitness when I rode a lot, not necessarily Z2 because I have no idea which zone I was in.
So whats the consensus, cuz everything I've read in Friel's book and other online sources converge on Z2 base is critical in the offseason.
So whats the consensus, cuz everything I've read in Friel's book and other online sources converge on Z2 base is critical in the offseason.
11-08-13, 03:11 PM
#108
out walking the earth
I'd like a Z2 workout once in a while. My understanding is base is Z3. Z2 is going a bit too hard on a recovery day. Speed work is the stuff that blurs your vision.
11-08-13, 03:12 PM
#109
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I'm kind of like the other guy, no real problems with anaerobic ability but aerobically suffer. Looking back a few years before I took a small hiatus, I was in my best fitness when I rode a lot, not necessarily Z2 because I have no idea which zone I was in.
So whats the consensus, cuz everything I've read in Friel's book and other online sources converge on Z2 base is critical in the offseason.
So whats the consensus, cuz everything I've read in Friel's book and other online sources converge on Z2 base is critical in the offseason.
My preference is to ride hard, a lot. But I have a huge base from years of stuff.
THere are no other online sources besides this forum
11-08-13, 03:13 PM
#110
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I've got your ****ing sweaty DNA all over my PC7. I have taken it to the lab and am going to clone me a little garbear...
11-08-13, 03:25 PM
#112
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11-08-13, 04:10 PM
#114
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11-08-13, 04:23 PM
#115
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I guess the way I understand it now is you need a base to be able to hit your targets/power when building in Z3/Z4/Z5/etc, without a base you wont be able to recover between those intervals.
Amirite? I guess it takes tons of hours on the bike to build that.
Amirite? I guess it takes tons of hours on the bike to build that.
11-08-13, 05:00 PM
#118
Making a kilometer blurry
your what?
11-08-13, 07:13 PM
#121
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Really.
Well darn it, there it is.
My question was simple and without qualification. I didn't write "all the time". And I know what Joe and some of the others say about it. What I'm interested in is if anyone actually thought about it as it might apply to their own program/needs, vs. accepting that you're the generic rider Joe is writing about.
Having actually read your race reports I have a pretty good idea where you're lacking compared to the competition, and what your primary focus was. I would hope that you would too.
Brian had a very good answer as to why/when Z2 helped him, he was doing long climbing road races. Is that your focus for next season?
I've heard some of the other objectives and frankly they make me shake my head a touch. But that just may be some old age thing.
Thing with training is people want to drive from Florida to New York on $200 of gas and decide California is the best route because they never looked at a map.
My question was simple and without qualification. I didn't write "all the time". And I know what Joe and some of the others say about it. What I'm interested in is if anyone actually thought about it as it might apply to their own program/needs, vs. accepting that you're the generic rider Joe is writing about.
Having actually read your race reports I have a pretty good idea where you're lacking compared to the competition, and what your primary focus was. I would hope that you would too.
Brian had a very good answer as to why/when Z2 helped him, he was doing long climbing road races. Is that your focus for next season?
I've heard some of the other objectives and frankly they make me shake my head a touch. But that just may be some old age thing.
Thing with training is people want to drive from Florida to New York on $200 of gas and decide California is the best route because they never looked at a map.
11-08-13, 07:29 PM
#122
**** that
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My focus was on crits last year, and next year - but I want to a) not get dropped in longer climby road races like Cascade, b) not suck at TTs so bad, and c) show up at the finish line of any race with more in the tank.
The overall idea of my training so far is to build a "solid base" to increase my FTP. Eventually actual FTP-training will start, but for now I'm laying the foundation. That's the thinking anyway!
The other side of the limiter-coin isn't really physical: not having a team/team mates, not really knowing who's who or having done the course before, and being too hesitant when the time came to really go. Hopefully easier to fix.
11-08-13, 08:08 PM
#123
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Bigger matchbook. 1-3m power and recovery from effort. Bridging drills. Improve your sprint.
This seems to be wise.
I want to be tall, with a full head of wavy blonde hair, and able to dunk on the best NBA centers.
My experience with real P1/2 climbers is that you would have already been knocking at that door if you were built that way. If by not getting dropped you mean not finishing DFL, not sure the time getting there isn't better spent at what you could be successful at.
"B" is an unknown. Other than States few TT's are longer than 20k, so "real" FTP gains (vs. 20m test/calc) are kinda a waste. Just being better technically (adaptation, pacing, Etc) can often move you up a lot in a TT on the same average wattage. TT's are much more an art form than pure power. Unless you're Tony Martin. Then you just crush them with watts.
Although Tony has a great position as well.
The biggest thing you'd get out of working on TT's is an awareness of how hard you can go and how to sit on the knife edge without falling off. I'm pretty much the guy who always makes the bridge, less because of giant numbers, and more because I can use what I have to the last watt.
You'd also be able to IAB better. This is a huge matchbook saver.
"C" I'd see both my first comment, and suggest that the crits where you'd need more in the tank are probably not going to see much Z2 HR or power. Mostly you'll see a HR banging on 95% or greater and a power curve that looks like stalagmites.
In road races often the fading at the end has more to do with poor race craft. The answer and the question are both in your files.
BTW, if you're not using Hellyer to work on all the above you should be beach slapped.
This seems to be wise.
My experience with real P1/2 climbers is that you would have already been knocking at that door if you were built that way. If by not getting dropped you mean not finishing DFL, not sure the time getting there isn't better spent at what you could be successful at.
"B" is an unknown. Other than States few TT's are longer than 20k, so "real" FTP gains (vs. 20m test/calc) are kinda a waste. Just being better technically (adaptation, pacing, Etc) can often move you up a lot in a TT on the same average wattage. TT's are much more an art form than pure power. Unless you're Tony Martin. Then you just crush them with watts.
Although Tony has a great position as well.
The biggest thing you'd get out of working on TT's is an awareness of how hard you can go and how to sit on the knife edge without falling off. I'm pretty much the guy who always makes the bridge, less because of giant numbers, and more because I can use what I have to the last watt.
You'd also be able to IAB better. This is a huge matchbook saver.
"C" I'd see both my first comment, and suggest that the crits where you'd need more in the tank are probably not going to see much Z2 HR or power. Mostly you'll see a HR banging on 95% or greater and a power curve that looks like stalagmites.
In road races often the fading at the end has more to do with poor race craft. The answer and the question are both in your files.
BTW, if you're not using Hellyer to work on all the above you should be beach slapped.
Last edited by Racer Ex; 11-08-13 at 08:12 PM.
11-08-13, 08:54 PM
#124
Making a kilometer blurry
good stuff