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  1. #26
    **** that mattm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EventServices View Post
    Do you know of specifics? Or are you just a bit jaded and are now looking at this through 2013 glasses?

    Because if you were around back then and can verify stories, please do. But if you're relatively new to the sport and are just surmising based on what you know now, then I'll address it this way: coaches* back then taught you to how to race your bike. Nobody that I know was taking anything or talking about anything illicit. It was the rare dude that was taking heavy stuff to race.

    It wasn't until cycling became big business in the Lemond era (when salaries grew to +six figures) that doping became serious. Before that, it was individuals experimenting with stuff. You had the Tommy Simpson level of amphetamine use. But the lower levels was kid's stuff, really, compared to where we are now. EPO came along and people started dying. That's when things really changed.


    *I knew Mike Walden. He could teach you the dirty tricks to get the advantage. He would teach you to use your elbows and sit out laps on the back stretch and grab jerseys. That was actually commonplace back then. (I reference this in my new book. See page 19.) And he also taught you how to be a complete rider. But I never heard him utter a word about drugs.

    But if you know more, then spill.
    No, I don't know ****.

    But when I hear "riding in Europe as a pro" (especially in the past) I think doping. Is that wrong?
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  2. #27
    Announcer EventServices's Avatar
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    Not necessarily, but to paint everyone with the same broad brush isn't accurate for that point in time. And the American scene was entirely different from Europe. Still is, really. Not to say that it was pristine. But I think the names from the past (The Stetinas, Howard, Mount, Lemond etc.) hold up pretty well.

  3. #28
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EventServices View Post
    And the American scene was entirely different from Europe. Still is, really
    Given that several of those guys were on the "EddieB'd" 84 Olympic team, and at least one of them served a suspension a few years later, plus the reality that USAC and USOC were complicit in using positive tests in that era to refine our boys doping, I'm not placing any retroactive bets.

    We test so lightly and poorly here now that some land lady needs to find EPO in a vacated fridge to get anything rolling. And that's with USADA in place since 2000. My guess is "drug test" had a different meaning in the 80's. It did for me. I tested a few.

    You can't take something before it's invented. But there were a boatload of steroids floating around in that era along with plenty of "old school" uppers and a ton of blow. Anecdotaly from the guys who went over and bagged it rather than get on a program or were shocked at what they saw my guess would be that yeah, it was less the accepted practice and less talked about.

    FWIW, none of the dopers who I raced against talked to me about it either.

    Whether that meets the criteria for "entirely different" is up to interpretation.

    I agree with the broad brush comment though. Unfortunately even the guys here who win a lot of races have had stuff thrown at them.
    Last edited by Racer Ex; 10-13-13 at 08:15 PM.

  4. #29
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Agreed with the broad brush. Not right, not fair. However, drug abuse on the kermesse circuit was pretty much legendary during that time, and a lot of the European imports at these races were not big names who were scrapping to get to the top.

  5. #30
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    A bunch of Dutch racers raced for a NYC team many years ago. One of them, when he learned that I grew up in Holland, came up to me at a big race. "Will there be drug testing here?" "Uh, no, they never test in races around here." "Thank you."

    They didn't win that race (Mike McCarthy did I think) but they won a lot, and I mean a lot. Apparently they'd been given a "vacation" from Holland that year.
    "...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson

  6. #31
    Senior Member ips0803's Avatar
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    should send it to Steve Milford, maybe he will have some fun memories to share in a blog post

  7. #32
    Senior Member Homebrew01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ips0803 View Post
    should send it to Steve Milford, maybe he will have some fun memories to share in a blog post
    Any relation to Steve Tilford ?
    Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike

  8. #33
    Senior Member ips0803's Avatar
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    yup. They're legally related by means of autospell

  9. #34
    Announcer EventServices's Avatar
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    Steve has seen these reg sheets.
    He also has a copy of Reading the Race that I'm waiting for him to review.

  10. #35
    . botto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    There were very, very few Cat1's back then, at least on the East Coast. The only ones I knew were on the National Team.
    that's when cat 1s were actually cat 1s.

  11. #36
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by botto View Post
    that's when cat 1s were actually cat 1s.
    You're just mad because G and I are and you aren't. Neener neener.

    Seriously, I have no delusions. I know if I had started as a teen Lemond would be my beech, but my time machine is broken.

    Nah. The real Cat1 old farts kick my ass. But:

    I think Cat1 serves a purpose these days. Can't do a lot of pro races without being one so the non-pro guys in there at least aren't going to get in the way. I don't know any Cat 1's that are crappy bike handlers. I know a lot of two's that are.

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