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-   -   To get a Coach or not (http://www.bikeforums.net/33-road-bike-racing/918645-get-coach-not.html)

waterrockets 10-22-13 07:12 AM

If you don't get a coach, but you race, then you're taking on coaching as another hobby. You might be good at it, or you might suck at it, and you may or may not put enough time into it, but it's best to be intentional about it. I went this route (self-coaching), and had mild success -- enough to make both hobbies more fun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsteinb (Post 16180756)

I saw that when it came out. One of the funniest things I read that day :)

Ygduf 10-22-13 10:09 AM

My Client Gary

A fitting sequel to
http://i.imgur.com/DXc1minl.jpg

grolby 10-22-13 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waterrockets (Post 16180861)
If you don't get a coach, but you race, then you're taking on coaching as another hobby. You might be good at it, or you might suck at it, and you may or may not put enough time into it, but it's best to be intentional about it. I went this route (self-coaching), and had mild success -- enough to make both hobbies more fun.

This is an insightful comment. I can tell from my own experience that coaching isn't something I'm particularly into - it's easy for me to think about what I may be good at or weaker at, and what I want to improve, but prescribing and executing workouts in a systematic way to meet those goals is difficult for me. My experience is that I tend to do okay during the base-building portion of my season, but I really start to lose the plot when it comes time to start building on top of that. I'd be willing to bet that I'm not the only one; by nature, base and threshold work is relatively simple to plan and do. When workouts get more complicated, it starts to feel more like doing a complicated math problem. And I'm not really into those.

Ygduf 10-22-13 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grolby (Post 16181476)
it starts to feel more like doing a complicated math problem. And I'm not really into those.


I am similar. I've found less structured ways to encourage the benefits of structure, definitely less "efficient", though.

I would be hard to coach. I'm always tinkering with my own method, reading on mitochondrial density and and stressors and not to mention I feel like I know everything anyway. Logically I know I don't, but as long as I keep progressing "training my way", it would be hard to shut that off.

Jandro 10-22-13 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ygduf (Post 16181511)
I feel like I know everything anyway.

thought every member of bfs ever.

Ygduf 10-22-13 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jandro (Post 16181944)
thought every member of bfs ever.

truth. I just recognize my limitation in re: this area.

Racer Ex 10-22-13 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jandro (Post 16181944)
thought every member of bfs ever.

Not me. As I get older I realize I know less and less.

BTW, I only coach MattM in the sense of his "you are all my coaches" post. If I did actually coach him I'd give him a list of people NOT to listen to. It would start with:

1) MattM

;)

Racer Ex 10-22-13 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ygduf (Post 16181511)
I would be hard to coach.

Not after you go through my training camp.


gsteinb 10-22-13 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racer Ex (Post 16182356)
Not me. As I get older I realize I know less and less.

BTW, I only coach MattM in the sense of his "you are all my coaches" post. If I did actually coach him I'd give him a list of people NOT to listen to. It would start with:

1) MattM

;)



:roflmao2:

Ygduf 10-22-13 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racer Ex (Post 16182379)
Not after you go through my training camp.


It's all french to me.

Racer Ex 10-22-13 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ygduf (Post 16182611)
It's all french to me.

You never know when you'll be in a break with a frenchy who won't pull through.

furiousferret 10-22-13 11:45 PM

I was bored today and put up a 12 week plan for training. Its pretty much all base training, going from 8 hrs/week and topping out at 16 hours. Just got tired of not really having a plan. The hardest part is parsing out all the days you have other commitments and then working around it.

waterrockets 10-23-13 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racer Ex (Post 16183509)
You never know when you'll be in a break with a frenchy who won't pull through.

Should be expected, right? Surrender monkeys and all?

Hermes 10-23-13 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ygduf (Post 16181511)
I am similar. I've found less structured ways to encourage the benefits of structure, definitely less "efficient", though.

I would be hard to coach. I'm always tinkering with my own method, reading on mitochondrial density and and stressors and not to mention
I feel like I know everything anyway. Logically I know I don't, but as long as I keep progressing "training my way", it would be hard to shut that off.

Would you do a self appendectomy?

If you are that smart and knowledgeable, then there will be a higher and better use of your time than self coaching. Your best bet is to pay a coach, follow the training advice and race. Use the free time to make money.

Ygduf 10-23-13 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermes (Post 16184751)
Would you do a self appendectomy?

Sometimes false dichotomy arguments are so far off the path of reason that I have trouble finding any relation at all.

I would not give myself an appendectomy, no. Nor did I pull my own teeth, wire my own braces, neuter my own dog, or cut my wife's hair.

Are we still talking about coaching?

rkwaki 10-23-13 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermes (Post 16184751)
Would you do a self appendectomy?

If you are that smart and knowledgeable, then there will be a higher and better use of your time than self coaching. Your best bet is to pay a coach, follow the training advice and race. Use the free time to make money.

Great post.

Ygduf 10-23-13 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkwaki (Post 16184798)
Great post.

Really? I found it lacking!

The alternate listed was ridiculous, it ignores the language in my post that I realize I both "do not know everything" and am training "with less efficiency". It also puts forth an argument where if one were very smart and knowledgeable enough coach, they should not be coaching, tautologically eliminating the possibility of a "good coach".

rkwaki 10-23-13 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ygduf (Post 16184796)
Sometimes false dichotomy arguments are so far off the path of reason that I have trouble finding any relation at all.

I would not give myself an appendectomy, no. Nor did I pull my own teeth, wire my own braces, neuter my own dog, or cut my wife's hair.

Are we still talking about coaching?

I think what he's saying or questioning is why?
You seem to have a pretty healthy image of yourself but as the old saying goes "even a blind squirrel can find a nut"...
Sure training/progressing the way you are is great and you will get there provided you don't overtrain, etc. but I believe Hermes is saying that when it comes to coaching rather that try and do it yourself, let a 'coach' coach you. I'm sure you could put your own braces on, it might take a few tries, might have a few failures, cause a little pain but eventually you would figure it out OR you could go to a Dentist and have him tell you how to do it, the shortcuts, the tools you would need and in what order you would do things and this would cut down on all of the above.

rkwaki 10-23-13 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ygduf (Post 16184812)
Really? I found it lacking!

The alternate listed was ridiculous, it ignores the language in my post that I realize I both "do not know everything" and am training "with less efficiency". It also puts forth an argument where if one were very smart and knowledgeable enough coach, they should not be coaching, tautologically eliminating the possibility of a "good coach".

Actually it doesn't - it is referring directly to you (i.e. ygduf) by saying "if you are that smart..."

jsutkeepspining 10-23-13 10:48 AM

I like my coach, he tells me what to do, i either tell him i will, or i give possible alternatives if i feel the plan is lacking or overreaching, then he responds with a new plan if my concerns make sense and are correct. It's a nice relationship. we exchange daily emails.

Ygduf 10-23-13 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkwaki (Post 16184822)
I think what he's saying or questioning is why?

I know what he meant. I'm just having fun.

I realize I am risking a slower development curve by following a self-taught, trial and error method. But for me, that's part of the experience.

The minute my riding becomes locked down into a schedule and strict plan I'm pretty sure I'd hate every minute and find a reason to bail.

I'm definitely not discouraging anyone else from seeking a coach or following a plan. To each their own. Their method could lead to great gains and long-term enjoyment of the sport, perhaps even more so than mine for me. Only time will tell.

But still, I'm going to bust balls when I see things (like my posts) taken too seriously or willfully misunderstood.

Ygduf 10-23-13 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkwaki (Post 16184831)
Actually it doesn't - it is referring directly to you (i.e. ygduf) by saying "if you are that smart..."

I thought me thinking there were special rules for me was part of the problem. :D

Kant's categorical imperative and all.

Anyway, I'll step back. Clearly everyone wants to talk about coaches and coaching and no one but me desires a devil's advocate for alternate approaches.

MDcatV 10-23-13 11:15 AM

In my experience, working with a good coach is the best thing a cyclist can do to improve their cycling and reach their maximum abilities, better than gadgets, software or books. I improved more when i worked with a coach than at any other time during my cycling career. I have also coached athletes (I'm not a coach but I'm also not totally unlearned, a few teammates asked for help and I did). I have found it's way easier to coach others and see their strengths, weaknesses, etc. and help them build or correct upon them than it is to identify these items for myself. IOW, having another set of eyes on you and holding you accountable or helping you see the forest through the trees is a valuable resource.

I've self coached since 2008 except for a 3 month consultation in 2010 when some things went sideways that I couldnt figure out. Reason? I figured I could be a mediocre cat 2 and masters racer for free so why pay someone else for it (kind of stupid in hindsight). I've plateaued and feel like some abilities I used to consider strengths are now not, but havent really been replaced by new strengths. So, i've decided to work with a coach for this coming season.

how do you find a good coach? find one who coaches athletes like YOU (age, category, focus/discipline, and geography), give them a call and ask them what they're all about in terms of whether their personality, philosophy, and style meshes with yours.

Hermes 10-23-13 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ygduf (Post 16184853)
I know what he meant. I'm just having fun.

I realize I am risking a slower development curve by following a self-taught, trial and error method. But for me, that's part of the experience.

The minute my riding becomes locked down into a schedule and strict plan I'm pretty sure I'd hate every minute and find a reason to bail.

I'm definitely not discouraging anyone else from seeking a coach or following a plan. To each their own. Their method could lead to great gains and long-term enjoyment of the sport, perhaps even more so than mine for me. Only time will tell.

But still, I'm going to bust balls when I see things (like my posts) taken too seriously or willfully misunderstood.

Sorry if I willfully misunderstood you. It was not my intent.

rkwaki 10-23-13 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermes (Post 16184994)
Sorry if I willfully misunderstood you. It was not my intent.

Yes it was you bastard :P

Let me relay the importance of coaching in another discipline.
As my two worlds have revolved around bodybuilding and cycling I will refocus on bodybuilding. Probably 95% of competitors use a prep coach when getting ready for a show. Sure they understand diet, exercise, workouts, form, etc. but a coach provides something else (and amazingly hasn't been mentioned here I don't think) - accountability. Weekly progress pictures are a must when getting ready for a show. It allows a prep coach to focus, refocus or redirect and athlete. Sure anybody could lose weight and gain muscle but I think we could agree that our progress would be much better if we had direction. Look at the focus put on the weight loss industry. Books, DVDs, online programs etc most of which fail to achieve the goal of the dieter. For what reason? Lack of accountability.
When you know someone is looking you try a little harder. When using an app like myfitnesspal eating that scoop of ice cream on top of a piece of pie becomes a little more difficult...

:)


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