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Old 10-23-13, 03:56 PM   #101
gsteinb
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The fact is I love you and you can't stop me.
It's legal in NJ now, so even the gubernment can't stop you.
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Old 10-23-13, 03:59 PM   #102
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But confusing? I don't understand that. pm me or quote anything that is legitimately confusing to you and I'll try to clarify.
when i come across those posts of yours, i just generally attribute them to you being you (meaning the online persona you've cultivated, at least; not sure to what degree it really reflects your personality).

i don't generally feel the need to engage you at that level; it is easier to move on. i'm simply saying that the way i read threads (most of the time it is a page or 3 at a time) that happen to include your posts, i often see you say one thing, then retreat behind an excuse that amounts to 'i wasn't serious' or 'you got it wrong'. if you were a dumb guy, i'd believe you didn't know exactly what you were doing.

like i said before, i think it is probably the way you express things. unlike when others do so, when you are being 'devil's advocate' it tends to come across to me (whether you agree or not) as dismissive of others' accomplishments/goals (sometimes) or a gratuitous argument on the position (others). this may come as a shock to you as you seem to regard yourself as someone who is very tolerant of others' differences -- it rarely if ever reads that way to me in the way you express your counterpoints.


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There's no endgame amateur racing. … All up until you're racing at nationals and you win your age group there and that's very cool and quite an achievement, but ultimately probably not very life changing.


^^^ since it happens to be one post above, i guess i'll use this as an example.

well, i'm not sure there is ever an endgame in life (other than death), professional or not. win the TdF? go win another. one might argue that winning at nationals is an endgame -- it is an achievement at the top level -- but of course there is always more. i'm not sure amateur athletics need and endgame to be life-changing. the process is pretty life-changing.

i suspect for someone that has the drive, the ability and the willingness to make the necessary sacrifices -- probably over many years -- that it takes to win at nationals or a similar level (even if it is at the amateur level), it IS life-changing. not winning does not preclude someone from having life-changing experiences, too.

maybe the very fact that it IS amateur sport makes it more meaningful: these people (people on this forum) have jobs, kids, pets, other hobbies, and still fit sport into it, and at the highest level of amateur sport at that. the masters athletes i know (a few national champs, included) are often extremely interesting individuals. once it becomes professional, it's a job and possibly even more one-dimensional.

perhaps it would be better to hear from someone who competes at the top amateur level as to whether that experience changes their lives rather than from someone who doesn't yet race at that level?

given that:
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I fall victim to the temptation to point out exemptions to broad blanket statements, though.
i think you can wild for a few hours with your broad blanket statements that are just on this page. here are just a few. have fun!
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I'm always honest in my posts

I never intend to get people riled up.

Achievement is like $$, people always want more and are always just a little bit dissatisfied with what they have.
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Old 10-23-13, 04:01 PM   #103
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like i said, it could just be me, but i see stuff like this from respected people like gsteinb and, well, if it were written to me it would make me pause.

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...and you continually flaunt the fact that you're not listening.
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Old 10-23-13, 04:04 PM   #104
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I'm always honest in my posts, and it's not that I'm not serious, it's that I never intend to get people riled up. I'm generally not giving advice, I'm stating "this has worked for me" or "this is why I do X". People's mileage always varies.

I fall victim to the temptation to point out exemptions to broad blanket statements, though. I recognize that. (e.g. when gsb say's "you must do specific focused training or you'll suck" I felt obligated to point out that I do not suck nor do I do intervals or anything like them.)

But confusing? I don't understand that. pm me or quote anything that is legitimately confusing to you and I'll try to clarify.
Actually you do suck. You're not a pro yet, therefore you suck.
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Old 10-23-13, 04:05 PM   #105
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Actually you do suck. You're not a pro yet, therefore you suck.
fair enough. that's a high bar, though!
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Old 10-23-13, 04:08 PM   #106
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like i said, it could just be me, but i see stuff like this from respected people like gsteinb and, well, if it were written to me it would make me pause.
Shrug. I read posts and judge the content. Some people see the names and then read what they expect.

Did I not list the interaction with GSB as something that went awry, only to receive a weirdly hostile response where he indicates he believes I have an issue with him?

I've said it 800x. Everyone in here has more in common that most stranger-stranger relationships.

I would be more worried if I had issues getting along IRL.
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Old 10-23-13, 04:09 PM   #107
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Seriously though, for a while I only raced bikes because I was grinding my category. I almost quit cycling this past summer because I made it to cat2 and I considered it "endgame" because Cat2 races all the same as Cat1, so why need to further upgrade. It wasn't until I refocused some goals away from just upgrading that I was able to get back to it.
there's so much focus on upgrading that is inherent in the USAC system. practically whenever i bump into another rider, i get asked if i've upgraded. the last time was on sunday when a local rider caught up to me. this guy just upgraded to 3 (not sure how--he had nowhere near the points), and he was proud to tell me that he was no longer going to do road races--he would focus on running events and tris. anyway, so many people place value on the # on the USAC license. i notice that when others (or when i) are focused on the upgrade, it's often a sign we're forgetting the process.

anyway…cat 2 doesn't all race the same as cat 1, so you kinda ​have to upgrade, creatre!

battenkill (you raced it, right?) has a separate cat 1 race. cascade (you want to do stage races…this is a great one) has a pro/1 field. gila has a 1/2, but that's different from the p/1 race (you'd have to guest ride for that, though, so that's another issue).



anyway, endgames are all personal. my own 'endgame' with cycling has lots more to do with overall health and stuff off the bike, but racing (and hopefully winning sometimes) along the way sure makes the path enjoyable.
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Old 10-23-13, 04:09 PM   #108
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Actually you do suck. You're not a pro yet, therefore you suck.
you dont even ride bikes bro.

I wish this forum was like 4chan, full anon. Then reputations wouldn't get in the way and everyone would be judged on the merit of their posts!
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Old 10-23-13, 04:11 PM   #109
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fair enough. that's a high bar, though!
yes but hopefully an attainable bar for me one of these days.


basically it comes down to this: you want to progress further than you every have before? get a good coach. Want to not get too caught up in "training" and "structure"? don't get a coach.
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Old 10-23-13, 04:12 PM   #110
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you dont even ride bikes bro.

I wish this forum was like 4chan, full anon. Then reputations wouldn't get in the way and everyone would be judged on the merit of their posts!
I still ride more than you

also that would be a terrible idea. Just imagine if you were giving advice. we would all be slow and fat
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Old 10-23-13, 04:13 PM   #111
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anyway…cat 2 doesn't all race the same as cat 1, so you kinda ​have to upgrade, creatre!

battenkill (you raced it, right?) has a separate cat 1 race. cascade (you want to do stage races…this is a great one) has a pro/1 field. gila has a 1/2, but that's different from the p/1 race (you'd have to guest ride for that, though, so that's another issue).
.
Yeah that wasn't enough though for me at first, because I could do all the regional races in P12. I never even really cared about the results when racing, but I didn't realize how much I chased the upgrade until I upgraded to cat2 and felt like I no longer had a direction. At this point I don't even care if I upgrade to a 1, just gonna do the best I can for myself and the team as a 2 and see what happens. Even being competitive at this level means more training and more smarts though, so working on that first!
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Old 10-23-13, 04:14 PM   #112
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I wish this forum was like 4chan
dear lord
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Old 10-23-13, 04:15 PM   #113
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I still ride more than you

also that would be a terrible idea. Just imagine if you were giving advice. we would all be slow and fat
I almost never give advice on/off the bike, even to people who could really use it. The other day I rode by a dude who had the worst pedaling technique I've ever seen, his knees went WAY out from the bike it looked so painful and his saddle was super super low...I didn't say anything, don't want to hurt his feelings.

Also I rode with a guy 2 months ago who was wearing an old yellow kit but it was completely see through, I could see his butt and his junk from the back...Needless to say I just rode in the front and avoided looking at him.

anon bro, thats where its at!
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Old 10-23-13, 04:15 PM   #114
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yes but hopefully an attainable bar for me one of these days.
you have that one thing which most of us lack, actual youth. A coach is probably a good idea is you're pursuing it as a career.

For me or mattm though, does it really matter if we upgrade at 35 or at 36?
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Old 10-23-13, 04:16 PM   #115
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Shrug. I read posts and judge the content. Some people see the names and then read what they expect.
it is surprising you are bothered when people ask you questions like 'would you perform your own surgery?' yet you post stuff like this? you write stuff like this clearly to make an implication yet leave yourself wiggle room with an innocent, 'but i was just referring to myself.'

if a 1st time poster comes on and writes what gsteinb wrote about me, i'd think about it in a different light. sometimes the content AND the commenter matter.

rkwaki was more polite in an early post when he referenced your opinion of yourself. you don't exactly come off as someone who thinks they have anything to learn.

i know, shocker, right?

anyway, i think you've proven the point.
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Old 10-23-13, 04:18 PM   #116
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Yeah that wasn't enough though for me at first, because I could do all the regional races in P12. I never even really cared about the results when racing, but I didn't realize how much I chased the upgrade until I upgraded to cat2 and felt like I no longer had a direction. At this point I don't even care if I upgrade to a 1, just gonna do the best I can for myself and the team as a 2 and see what happens. Even being competitive at this level means more training and more smarts though, so working on that first!
totally know what you mean.

regionally we have p123 races and as a masters-level (read: i'm old!) athlete, categories make even less of a difference.

that said, there is a particular p/1 race i'd love to do at some point, though i may never get there. i find joy in applying myself to try to make it. (i believe i will make it.)
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Old 10-23-13, 04:20 PM   #117
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you have that one thing which most of us lack, actual youth. A coach is probably a good idea is you're pursuing it as a career.

For me or mattm though, does it really matter if we upgrade at 35 or at 36?
I'm 27, I have no intentions of going pro with this(that would be actually very bad if I did), but jstkeepspinning needs to actually ride a bike to become pro. Right now his profession is being whipped.

I also noticed early on with this sport that age isn't such a big deal. It helps to be young but I've been repeatedly dropped by dudes 10+ years older than me, consistently. I think at 60 it starts to go downhill but until then you can still be super competitive haha. I think the cycling sweet spot after some experience is 30-40.

Just my guess
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Old 10-23-13, 04:20 PM   #118
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I just want to get payed to wear spandex and shave my legs. Is that too much to ask

this is a major softball, i better come back to a homerun.
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Old 10-23-13, 04:27 PM   #119
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you don't exactly come off as someone who thinks they have anything to learn.

i know, shocker, right?

anyway, i think you've proven the point.
Perception is in the eye of the reader, I guess. I fully admit in 15 different posts here that my self-taught process is very likely slower than working with a coach and following a very strict process. I just make a personal decision that enjoying the training and the process is and not following a strict plan has more value to me than being at XYZ level today vs. maybe next month or next year or ever. If you can't be happy with what you have now, when will you be contented? But that's me and my philosophy. YMMV.

Honest question with zero implied sarcasm: what point did I prove?

In case there is some "wiggle room" remaining, I don't know ****. I only know what I did and how it turned out. That's it.
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Old 10-23-13, 04:33 PM   #120
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You're a guy who likes to do things on his own. Productive…perhaps not. Appropriate? Yep.
I missed this before, but for real, I have no issue with you. Implied or not. None, zero. I know you're accomplished and have many wins and know how to train and race.

Don't think that because I believe there might be more than 1 path to the same destination that I don't value knowing how you got there. I think maybe that's what's being lost. I'm never intending to say "don't do this or that". I'm honestly only ever saying "this is my datapoint for what I did and how it turned out".
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Old 10-23-13, 04:36 PM   #121
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Shrug. I read posts and judge the content. Some people see the names and then read what they expect.

Did I not list the interaction with GSB as something that went awry, only to receive a weirdly hostile response where he indicates he believes I have an issue with him?

I've said it 800x. Everyone in here has more in common that most stranger-stranger relationships.

I would be more worried if I had issues getting along IRL.
Actually, no you didn't. Your post continued to misconstrue my point.

you said: I fall victim to the temptation to point out exemptions to broad blanket statements, though. I recognize that.

You posted your interpretation of what I wrote as an example of a blanket statement.
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Old 10-23-13, 04:42 PM   #122
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I missed this before, but for real, I have no issue with you. Implied or not. None, zero. I know you're accomplished and have many wins and know how to train and race.

Don't think that because I believe there might be more than 1 path to the same destination that I don't value knowing how you got there. I think maybe that's what's being lost. I'm never intending to say "don't do this or that". I'm honestly only ever saying "this is my datapoint for what I did and how it turned out".
In the thread in question, and the posts you're misconstruing your contribution was that 'no one could help the OP' and he should just ride in a way he enjoys. I pointed out that there were guys who could help him, and that everyone sooner or later bumps up against their limiters. That's how we're all talking about what we're talking about. We can take a totally nihilistic approach and say none of it matters because none of us are going pro, and call it a day. But this is a forum devoted to racing and training, so things usually aren't going to go that way.
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Old 10-23-13, 04:46 PM   #123
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I think we should all just hug each other.
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Old 10-23-13, 04:47 PM   #124
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+1


Or are you just talking about "cycling" in general? For fondos and centuries you'll definitely want a coach, and the most expensive bike your bank will finance.
Yeah it's basically a sin to ride a charity ride without coaching.
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Old 10-23-13, 04:58 PM   #125
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My perception that everyone here are bff's is apparently wrong. I'd just like to say that I was on the 'you don't need one' before it was cool.
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