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Old 10-23-13, 05:07 PM   #126
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this thread basically clears up any confusion that the answer to the OP's question is "it depends."
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Old 10-23-13, 05:14 PM   #127
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In the thread in question, and the posts you're misconstruing your contribution was that 'no one could help the OP' and he should just ride in a way he enjoys. I pointed out that there were guys who could help him, and that everyone sooner or later bumps up against their limiters. That's how we're all talking about what we're talking about. We can take a totally nihilistic approach and say none of it matters because none of us are going pro, and call it a day. But this is a forum devoted to racing and training, so things usually aren't going to go that way.
OK, see, I see what you are saying. In that first interaction though, I wasn't saying (or certainly didn't mean to imply that it was the only option) that OP must do what I did. I was saying "when I was new this is what I did and it turned out OK".

But it was what it was. If that was 100% my fault, so be it. Sorry everybody!
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Old 10-23-13, 05:33 PM   #128
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OK, see, I see what you are saying. In that first interaction though, I wasn't saying (or certainly didn't mean to imply that it was the only option) that OP must do what I did. I was saying "when I was new this is what I did and it turned out OK".

But it was what it was. If that was 100% my fault, so be it. Sorry everybody!
No need to apologize to me, I get what you're about. But if I read between the lines of what you originally wrote, and your style encourages this, you effectively said that you don't understand why anyone will feel they needed a coach because you've done super and never had one because you know what a coach is going to tell you.

I'm between gsteinb and Ex on this. I think a coach makes sense after the rider has proven to themselves that they have the desire and commitment to race. I hunk that takes more than one race and maybe a Cat5 experience (10) to be convinced.

I hired a coach to prep for the biggest race of my career and decided to stick with it once I saw what was possible. I has success before and after.
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Old 10-23-13, 05:34 PM   #129
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i suspect for someone that has the drive, the ability and the willingness to make the necessary sacrifices -- probably over many years -- that it takes to win at nationals or a similar level (even if it is at the amateur level), it IS life-changing. not winning does not preclude someone from having life-changing experiences, too.
Tim Schmidt of the Eagles told an interviewer that he didn't walk around all day being an Eagle. He was doing the dishes before the interviewer showed up.

Everything is life changing. It's only a question of degree. Life's not static, and every day you're a little different. If you make winning at Nationals a goal winning isn't going to radically change your life, but the process very well might. It did for me, a little at a time.

When I won the Team Sprint a few years ago one of the guys I rode with broke down in tears after. He had been a really decorated racer and then had some bad stuff happen in his life, culminating with a cancer that nearly killed him. That win wasn't a birthday cake, but it was the candle he blew out.

Commenting on something you haven't done or tried to do is a bit like hitting the heavy bag then deciding how you'd do as a boxer. As Mike Tyson said, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.
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Old 10-23-13, 05:35 PM   #130
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OK, see, I see what you are saying. In that first interaction though, I wasn't saying (or certainly didn't mean to imply that it was the only option) that OP must do what I did. I was saying "when I was new this is what I did and it turned out OK".

But it was what it was. If that was 100% my fault, so be it. Sorry everybody!
If you're really speaking just for yourself and not trying to generalize or give advice, you should work on being clearer about that. If you keep needing to explain that you're just talking about yourself but keep catching the flak that you are here, it's your problem to solve with communication.

When it comes to your process... I, personally, have done six years of fumbling around and making mistakes, and it's getting pretty old. I would prefer to get more out of whatever potential I have, and race better, sooner. So that's me talking about myself. But I think a lot of people have a certain threshold for frustration, and after a few years of banging their head against a wall, it's less exhausting to give up. Or they can hire someone to help them get through that wall a little faster and maybe have a more satisfying racing experience. That doesn't have to mean winning.
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Old 10-23-13, 05:41 PM   #131
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No need to apologize to me, I get what you're about. But if I read between the lines of what you originally wrote, and your style encourages this, you effectively said that you don't understand why anyone will feel they needed a coach because you've done super and never had one because you know what a coach is going to tell you.
Nah. I understand why some people want or prefer to have a coach. I can't control what people read between the lines, but I never intended to disparage anyone for wanting a coach.

Thread was titled "get a coach or not" and I just wanted to contribute my experience without a coach, for whatever it's worth.

I have a weakness for goading. I've tried and will continue trying to stop. I should stick to people I know or have met in person.
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Old 10-23-13, 05:42 PM   #132
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No need to apologize to me, I get what you're about. But if I read between the lines of what you originally wrote, and your style encourages this, you effectively said that you don't understand why anyone will feel they needed a coach because you've done super and never had one because you know what a coach is going to tell you.

I'm between gsteinb and Ex on this. I think a coach makes sense after the rider has proven to themselves that they have the desire and commitment to race. I hunk that takes more than one race and maybe a Cat5 experience (10) to be convinced.

I hired a coach to prep for the biggest race of my career and decided to stick with it once I saw what was possible. I has success before and after.
Where am I on this? I may be confused at this point. I thought I said a pretty similar thing as you. I wouldn't hire a coach until I was sure I wanted to race. At the very least getting a race under the belt. I wouldn't get coached to try it out.

I raced since 1990 and just started working with a coach 4 years ago. I had success before and after, though for sure I was working with structure and had a pretty workable training plan for a long time. Am I better now? Hard to say, just given that there's no control group of me. I do some specific things I think have improved my racing that I don't think I'd have done on my own volition. For sure I train less and more efficiently, and that in and of itself is of value to me being busy with teaching and family commitments.
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Old 10-23-13, 05:43 PM   #133
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If you're really speaking just for yourself and not trying to generalize or give advice, you should work on being clearer about that. If you keep needing to explain that you're just talking about yourself but keep catching the flak that you are here, it's your problem to solve with communication.

When it comes to your process... I, personally, have done six years of fumbling around and making mistakes, and it's getting pretty old. I would prefer to get more out of whatever potential I have, and race better, sooner. So that's me talking about myself. But I think a lot of people have a certain threshold for frustration, and after a few years of banging their head against a wall, it's less exhausting to give up. Or they can hire someone to help them get through that wall a little faster and maybe have a more satisfying racing experience. That doesn't have to mean winning.
Yes, and yes. Makes sense.

Remind me in 5 years and might have lived that very same tract.
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Old 10-23-13, 06:34 PM   #134
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Commenting on something you haven't done or tried to do is a bit like hitting the heavy bag then deciding how you'd do as a boxer. As Mike Tyson said, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.
no offense, but i think i'd rather listen to fudgy on this one.

what do
you​ know about being a national champ?
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Old 10-23-13, 06:38 PM   #135
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I have a weakness for goading. I've tried and will continue trying to stop. I should stick to people I know or have met in person.
you were a material part of driving a number of people off of one cycling-related forum already, which pretty much killed it (or at least dramatically reduced the discourse). you moved over here presumably to have an audience, and people are saying some of the same things over here as they did there. not surprising given the way you state your points.

at what point does 'is it me?' cross your mind?

as i said before, when long-standing, respected members of a community say something to me (online or off), i pay extra attention. (NOT referring to me, here.)
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Old 10-23-13, 06:44 PM   #136
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Hey gearbear has been trying ot ban me for 3 years now. I ain't changing

sorry i had to add some comedic relief to this thread.
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Old 10-23-13, 07:03 PM   #137
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#****justgotrealupinhere!!
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Old 10-23-13, 07:28 PM   #138
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My best friend and newly minted cat 4 on the track pulled an 11.8" f200 at districts (He was racing on Hellyer's pseudo B team). One of the coaches at Hellyer came up to him after and basically said "We need to talk about you getting formal coaching." Maybe it's a bit different for track stuff, but he seems to really be enjoying it and is bugging me about getting a coach of my own.

We'll see.
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Old 10-23-13, 07:30 PM   #139
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Shorter the race the smaller the margin of error.
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Old 10-23-13, 07:36 PM   #140
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For a thread that I originally thought was spam, this has turned out pretty good!
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Old 10-23-13, 07:41 PM   #141
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Tim Schmidt of the Eagles told an interviewer that he didn't walk around all day being an Eagle. He was doing the dishes before the interviewer showed up.

Everything is life changing. It's only a question of degree. Life's not static, and every day you're a little different. If you make winning at Nationals a goal winning isn't going to radically change your life, but the process very well might. It did for me, a little at a time.

When I won the Team Sprint a few years ago one of the guys I rode with broke down in tears after. He had been a really decorated racer and then had some bad stuff happen in his life, culminating with a cancer that nearly killed him. That win wasn't a birthday cake, but it was the candle he blew out.

Commenting on something you haven't done or tried to do is a bit like hitting the heavy bag then deciding how you'd do as a boxer. As Mike Tyson said, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.
One could argue, that given the legal lines drawn, that Tim Schmidt isn't actually an Eagle and thus needs to do the dishes. Pretty sure Don has staff for that.
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Old 10-23-13, 08:28 PM   #142
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you were a material part of driving a number of people off of one cycling-related forum already, which pretty much killed it (or at least dramatically reduced the discourse). you moved over here presumably to have an audience, and people are saying some of the same things over here as they did there. not surprising given the way you state your points.

at what point does 'is it me?' cross your mind?

as i said before, when long-standing, respected members of a community say something to me (online or off), i pay extra attention. (NOT referring to me, here.)
Audience of many and a few seem to always take the same issue with not really my words, but my tone.

All due respect, but hater's gonna hate.

And I go out of my way to ride with Ex every time I know he is here. It's been a bit, but I don't think he thinks I'm an actual *******. You'd have better luck trying to get Shovel mad at me again.
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Old 10-23-13, 08:28 PM   #143
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For a thread that I originally thought was spam, this has turned out pretty good!

You're welcome!
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Old 10-23-13, 08:46 PM   #144
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All due respect, but hater's gonna hate.

And I go out of my way to ride with Ex every time I know he is here. It's been a bit, but I don't think he thinks I'm an actual *******. You'd have better luck trying to get Shovel mad at me again.
trying to get shovel mad at you again? what? you do a pretty good job of alienating people on your own, given enough time. natural tendencies come out. some people say it in more polite ways than others, which even you seem to miss.

you contributed materially toward the destruction of one online cycling community, a community you fled to because you didn't like it here (so you said). when membership/participation there waned, you returned here. a 30-second search shows you post the same stuff here as there, when you need attention. i hope it serves your need.

the stuff you are 'not serious' about sure does seem very important when you need to post it in multiple spots.

you can dismiss all this stuff, just as you've done before -- sure it is 'just a few people'. the reality is that there are new and different people telling you the same stuff. the problem is 'them', of course.
i'm glad that you can ride, infrequently, with someone and have them not think you are in person as you come off online. however, i'm not sure i'd be proud of that statement. pretty low bar.
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Old 10-23-13, 08:49 PM   #145
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Holy **** wasn't full moon last week?
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Old 10-23-13, 08:54 PM   #146
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this just goes to show you that crazy **** happens without you. I guess you're not as special as we thought
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Old 10-23-13, 08:54 PM   #147
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You'd have better luck trying to get Shovel mad at me again.
Hey, I'm over it, dude. If you want to be ignorant about criterium racing, be my guest.
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Old 10-23-13, 08:58 PM   #148
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trying to get shovel mad at you again? what? you do a pretty good job of alienating people on your own, given enough time. natural tendencies come out. some people say it in more polite ways than others, which even you seem to miss.

you contributed materially toward the destruction of one online cycling community, a community you fled to because you didn't like it here (so you said). when membership/participation there waned, you returned here. a 30-second search shows you post the same stuff here as there, when you need attention. i hope it serves your need.

the stuff you are 'not serious' about sure does seem very important when you need to post it in multiple spots.

you can dismiss all this stuff, just as you've done before -- sure it is 'just a few people'. the reality is that there are new and different people telling you the same stuff. the problem is 'them', of course.
i'm glad that you can ride, infrequently, with someone and have them not think you are in person as you come off online. however, i'm not sure i'd be proud of that statement. pretty low bar.

If it's any consolation I'm more immature in person than online but I'm a ton of fun to ride with

To fudgy, here is some for for thought. Take a look at those that have continued to post in this thread excluding the punk), consider the experience (not just on the bike but in life), the continual well meaning intentions of these post *****s, the positive contributions they have made to help new and developing riders who are looking for guidance, now step back, take a different perspective rather than being defensive and see what they are trying to do...
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Old 10-23-13, 08:59 PM   #149
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this just goes to show you that crazy **** happens without you. I guess you're not as special as we thought
Damn, I'm going to have to unleash the kraken.
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Old 10-23-13, 09:00 PM   #150
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