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Old 10-24-13, 10:40 AM   #201
gsteinb
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There was a promoter who was letting 5's in the 50+ down here.
That happened in NY a few years back in the 45+. It was protested pretty vehemently, but he did what he wanted. His rationale was that they could learn from us how to ride safer.
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Old 10-24-13, 10:41 AM   #202
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I stopped entering them 15 years ago, for various reasons, the main one being that I had no teammates that could climb or the races required too long a commitment (stage races) from me. My last excuse was that I was working the race so I couldn't race it.
We also have the aspect here in the bay area that there are often crits, circuits, TTs, and RRs on the same day. There's a saturation of options, so why pick the one where you're maybe least likely to succeed.

****, I'm the other way around, doing the long RRs and shying from the crits, for the same reason.
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Old 10-24-13, 10:48 AM   #203
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There's is nothing fun about about Dunnigan Hills.
There must be something, it sells out.

I refused to go last year as 2 years ago they borked the finish so badly it was like choking down a **** sandwich by chewing aspirin. My headstrong teammate wanted to go, did so, and ended up with 2 broken rims from hitting some sinkhole. Sucker.
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Old 10-24-13, 11:09 AM   #204
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This thread has evolved into 'To get a coach or not' to 'To race or not'.

@ ovoleg - The 5's get really deep around here in SoCal, sometimes having 3 races.
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Old 10-24-13, 11:48 AM   #205
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Reminder that if there's someone who's bringing you down, there's always the Ignore list.

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I think this is true at the higher categories, like 2s, 1s. I think that in the 4s and 5s there's still this "I just want to give it a shot" kind of mentality. There's some of it in the 3s, but many racers by then are jaded and prefer to be more than just pack fodder. This means you get overly optimistic racers as well as very strong ones. In the 4s and 5s you'll see racers of all levels entering because just checking off "I did that race" is enough of a reward.

I've entered road races knowing that I have no chance (as a 3... as a 4 I thought I had a chance even though I didn't), usually to try and set up a teammate until I'm cooked. I tell people I view the rest of the race as a training ride with marshals at the corners. I placed 6th in one of them when they picked my number at the finish. I'd left the race after 11 of 55 miles and was probably 2 hours away when the race finished, but that's a minor detail.
Sounds about right. I've definitely entered races as a "tourist," so to speak, and I've even done it recently. I went to Tour of the Hilltowns this summer knowing I didn't have a chance even of making the chase group (hell, I got dropped from the dropped group) because I'd wanted to do the race for years. Chances are that I won't be back next year. If I do, it would be to help a teammate, but I would have to be climbing way faster than I did this year. If I'm going to get dropped on the long climb that starts a dozen miles into the race, I'm not going to be much use.

It's not that I need to be a contender, in contrast there was the TN state championship RR this summer out in Cookeville. There, too, I had no chance of winning the race and knew that going in. But the nature of the course was such that I could help my stronger teammate by chasing attacks and helping keep long breaks sufficiently in check that he would be set up with a good chance when we hit the decisive fourth climb. So, the motivation to do a race doesn't have to be contending. But if you've already done a race (assuming it interests you at all), there generally needs to be motivation from contending, helping a teammate who can contend or at least getting a good workout to justify the registration fee and gas. At least in my book. Though it depends on the race, of course. Suffering at the back of a crit can still be fun. Suffering way OTB in a long hilly road race is the pits.
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Old 10-24-13, 11:55 AM   #206
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This thread has evolved into 'To get a coach or not' to 'To race or not'.

@ ovoleg - The 5's get really deep around here in SoCal, sometimes having 3 races.
I'm in the 4s right now hoping to push into the 3s in the early season. How large are the fields generally? I'm just googling pre-reg's from earlier in the year and looking at people's USAC results to get a sense of how big they are.

I'm not too concerned with a big field but I'm guessing it's going to be hard to make a move work when there are a ton of dudes chasing everything down?
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Old 10-24-13, 12:04 PM   #207
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there's only so much you can do that is of any value at certain races. there are some races i dont do because they're >2 hrs. away, i'll be dropped 10 minutes in, and then have to drive >2 hrs. to get home. it's a day away from family for a negative experience where I'm not useful to teammates, so it amounts to a waste of one of those "away for race day" credits i need to build up.
Yeah, I agree. I'm not familiar with the races mentioned, but I misinterpreted fudgy's comment as most racers don't do hard races because the fast people win them.
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Old 10-24-13, 12:10 PM   #208
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I'm in the 4s right now hoping to push into the 3s in the early season. How large are the fields generally? I'm just googling pre-reg's from earlier in the year and looking at people's USAC results to get a sense of how big they are.

I'm not too concerned with a big field but I'm guessing it's going to be hard to make a move work when there are a ton of dudes chasing everything down?
They're usually around 75 for the 4's.

As for how tough it is for a break, I'd ask one of the other SoCal guys that has more experience than me. Some teams in the 4's go pretty deep so my guess it would be tough.
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Old 10-24-13, 12:15 PM   #209
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They're usually around 75 for the 4's.

As for how tough it is for a break, I'd ask one of the other SoCal guys that has more experience than me. Some teams in the 4's go pretty deep so my guess it would be tough.
gotcha

thanks man!
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Old 10-24-13, 12:27 PM   #210
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I don't get what all the fuss is about.

Maybe people need coaching on how to deal with others they don't agree with?

All I know is it's gonna be a long off-season if this is how we're acting in October!!
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Old 10-24-13, 12:31 PM   #211
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I'm guessing it's going to be hard to make a move work when there are a ton of dudes chasing everything down?
Since I start salivating when the fields get bigger there's definitely some truth to that statement if you define "a move" as a break.

At Tuesday Night Worlds I consider 40 racers to be big enough to give me a chance. 20 racers, with 5-8 Cat 1s, and I'm history. Sitting in at that point requires a steady 300w or so and I simply can't do it.

At Bethel I consider 40 racers to be dangerously low for me - I figure anywhere from 5-10 riders will probably ride away from the rest of us. At 80-120 racers I am really looking forward to the finish. There are a lot of legs that can chase down moves in a field that size, even if it's windy, even if there's a power hill on the course, even if it's single file for 20 laps.
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Old 10-24-13, 01:00 PM   #212
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so, jnobles…. did we answer your question?

and more importantly, are you going to race the 50+ 5s at bethel? or norcal? or socal?
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Old 10-24-13, 01:47 PM   #213
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There must be something, it sells out.
So did Ashley Simpson concerts a while back.
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Old 10-24-13, 01:49 PM   #214
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Since I start salivating when the fields get bigger there's definitely some truth to that statement if you define "a move" as a break.

At Tuesday Night Worlds I consider 40 racers to be big enough to give me a chance. 20 racers, with 5-8 Cat 1s, and I'm history. Sitting in at that point requires a steady 300w or so and I simply can't do it.

At Bethel I consider 40 racers to be dangerously low for me - I figure anywhere from 5-10 riders will probably ride away from the rest of us. At 80-120 racers I am really looking forward to the finish. There are a lot of legs that can chase down moves in a field that size, even if it's windy, even if there's a power hill on the course, even if it's single file for 20 laps.
Wait, someone else calls their weekly hammerfest the Tuesday Night World Championships?
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Old 10-24-13, 02:18 PM   #215
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Wait, someone else calls their weekly hammerfest the Tuesday Night World Championships?
Pretty much every city in the country
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Old 10-24-13, 02:47 PM   #216
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Wait, someone else calls their weekly hammerfest the Tuesday Night World Championships?
I especially enjoy the colloquial name for the San Bruno Mountain Hillclimb that happens on Jan 1:

San Bruno World Championships

Which, uninterestingly enough, was my first ever sanctioned race. Which, still uninterestingly enough, was also Chris Phipps' (you may know him as Pizza Man) first ever race. That's about where the comparisons between he and I stop, though
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Old 10-24-13, 03:04 PM   #217
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Wait, someone else calls their weekly hammerfest the Tuesday Night World Championships?
Even the our Tuesday club ride is the call the Tuesday Night Worlds. There are some extra words in there but that's the gist of it.

The TNWC I'm referring to is an actual USAC training race, permits, insurance, officials.
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Old 10-24-13, 03:17 PM   #218
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San Bruno World Championships
wait, someone else calls their january 1st race the san bruno world championships, too?
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Old 10-24-13, 03:24 PM   #219
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Well crap. Not only am I irrelevant and off the back in the Tuesday Night World Championships, but they aren't even the real world championships. What's next? Vitamin Water has no vitamins?

Guess I need a coach!
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Old 10-24-13, 03:40 PM   #220
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Old 10-24-13, 05:38 PM   #221
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Well I have a wide variety of information to shift through. Lots of off topic stuff to fill my brain with too
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Old 10-24-13, 05:50 PM   #222
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No 50+ at Bethel.
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Old 10-24-13, 05:56 PM   #223
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No 50+ at Bethel.
just intended to be a play on the comments re: 5s in various masters fields (ex mentioned 50+), but more just a play on the thread drift. it was not only not funny but inaccurate! ;-)
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Old 10-24-13, 05:57 PM   #224
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That was my worthless nudge to create one.
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Old 10-27-13, 12:26 PM   #225
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Thanks to my environment (Alaska), my available time (3 kids and one on the way), and my resistance thus far to delve into fatbiking, I spend 6 months out of the year exclusively on the trainer. I literally couldn't do it without my coach. Without her planning my workouts and keeping me on track, I would roll into next season fat and out of shape, getting crushed by those that did train, spent their winter on the bike, or cross-country skied (I alpine race). Since I recognize that everything in my life works better when I'm in some sort of shape, I consider a coach an investment in more than just how fast I can ride around in a circle or climb a hill. YMMV.

I usually take a couple months off every year to just ride and do the odd 'cross race- basically to prevent burnout. A couple weeks before I start up with the coach again, I try to get used to a more regimented program on my own. It's plainly obvious that I am not nearly as skilled at planning a workout progression as she is. Where her patterns on the Performance Management chart have the ATL/TSB tightly managed and the CTL on a steady upward pattern throughout the trainer season, my efforts are all over the place. I just don't have the patience to learn how to manage them that well.

I also find that having a coach motivates me because I just don't want to let them down. Week in and week out she's there monitoring everything, so if I slack off she'll notice it. She writes the program, and I do my best to live up to it. That's the bargain. The payoff comes when I hit the road for the first time in the spring and notice just how much stronger I am. That strength allows me to think more in a race instead of just mindlessly hanging on, which greatly increases my chances of doing anything special.

That's just me, though.
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