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-   -   I dislike Joe Friel and Chris Carmichael (http://www.bikeforums.net/33-road-bike-racing/920766-i-dislike-joe-friel-chris-carmichael.html)

jsutkeepspining 11-05-13 09:50 AM

he's strong, he still has like a 4.5 w/kg ftp, he's just one of those low speed ot hgih watt people and doesn't ride super smart. Remember you're super slow, evena kitten could whoop you

ovoleg 11-05-13 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsutkeepspining (Post 16221048)
he's strong, he still has like a 4.5 w/kg ftp, he's just one of those low speed ot hgih watt people and doesn't ride super smart. Remember you're super slow, evena kitten could whoop you

I was looking at those rollers you were using, might get a set to train on in the house to mix things up. How much did you pay(did you pay? lol)

jsutkeepspining 11-05-13 10:06 AM

about 300. I like them. Still need to contact competitive cyclist for my warranty. Not too happy the cap broke, but it seems like an isolated incident.

i like how the lower speedd (20 mph) is still easily in my z2, but once im over 30 mph im at the 350+ range. I do not like how the wattage chart is just wrong. It said soomething like 400 watts for 31 mph. I can not do z5 work without sticking a towel under the rear roller

ovoleg 11-05-13 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsutkeepspining (Post 16221106)
about 300. I like them. Still need to contact competitive cyclist for my warranty. Not too happy the cap broke, but it seems like an isolated incident.

i like how the lower speedd (20 mph) is still easily in my z2, but once im over 30 mph im at the 350+ range. I do not like how the wattage chart is just wrong. It said soomething like 400 watts for 31 mph. I can not do z5 work without sticking a towel under the rear roller

I would only ever use it for Z1/Z2/Z3/Z4 depending on time. You buy them from Competitive?

jsutkeepspining 11-05-13 10:20 AM

oui oui mon ami

Racer Ex 11-05-13 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlinextraligh (Post 16220703)
My intent here was not to defend Carmichael's moral character or past history.

Saying something is more nuanced and that his lack of criminal charges are evidence of mitigating factors is either defending the act or the actor. Or both. Intent? All I can do is read what was written.

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlinextraligh (Post 16220703)
Also, I'd be willing to bet that what actually went on was a bit more nuanced than the plaintiff's allegations. I would like to think that if you doped minors unknowingly that there would be criminal charges involved.

I'd like to believe that if there was massive securities and mortgage fraud that nearly brought down the economy that there would be a long list of people going to jail. It would seem both our belief systems have failed us.

I had several accounts from juniors who rode on those teams (not involved in the suit). Knock on door. "You need this vitamin injection". Ride fast after. B12 magic!

You really need to sit around a table and hear someone ask "You don't think I was doped, do you?" for the real implication of this to hit home.

Fat Boy 11-05-13 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlinextraligh (Post 16220703)
I'm pretty sure his current coaching program doesn't involve doping, so the past history doesn't effect me. Also, I'd be willing to bet that what actually went on was a bit more nuanced than the plaintiff's allegations. I would like to think that if you doped minors unknowingly that there would be criminal charges involved.

My intent here was not to defend Carmichael's moral character or past history. Just sayin, I've found him helpful as a coach, and Ive enjoyed riding with him.

I really have no knowledge of Carmichael personally, so my feelings are fairly far removed. It seems like to jump start his coaching career he doped kids who then went and kicked some ass (of course). It doesn't make sense for him to dope anyone now. He's established and the feelings toward PED's have completely changed.

I know a couple who used to be trained by Carmichael. They were even mentioned in one of his books. They said it was reasonable coaching, but nothing special. If you read Hamilton's book, it makes C.C. out to be a clown. I definitely think he was billed as 'Lance's Coach' as a convenient way to cover up the use of Ferrari. Honestly, if you have the option of Ferrari or C.C. as a coach (especially 15 years ago), it's not even a consideration which you're going to go with.

gsteinb 11-05-13 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Boy (Post 16221320)
I really have no knowledge of Carmichael personally, so my feelings are fairly far removed. It seems like to jump start his coaching career he doped kids who then went and kicked some ass (of course). It doesn't make sense for him to dope anyone now. He's established and the feelings toward PED's have completely changed.

I know a couple who used to be trained by Carmichael. They were even mentioned in one of his books. They said it was reasonable coaching, but nothing special. If you read Hamilton's book, it makes C.C. out to be a clown. I definitely think he was billed as 'Lance's Coach' as a convenient way to cover up the use of Ferrari. Honestly, if you have the option of Ferrari or C.C. as a coach (especially 15 years ago), it's not even a consideration which you're going to go with.

The answers is 'C' (other).

Fat Boy 11-05-13 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsteinb (Post 16221337)
The answers is 'C' (other).

If you want to win pro bike races in 1998, 'C' doesn't cut it. While it may be the correct answer in retrospect (and one I agree with) for a host of reasons, it's not the one that many would have made at that time.

gsteinb 11-05-13 12:05 PM

I missed the shift from what one of us would do to what would some pro would do. I would have opted for the not wanting to win a pro bike race in 1998 cause taking **** just ain't what I've wanted to do with my time.

echappist 11-05-13 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsteinb (Post 16221337)
The answers is 'C' (other).

Tbf, as amoral as Dr. Ferrari is (i don't think he's immoral), he's at least technically competent. As someone else put it, Ferrari is just the front for Lance, and he got rewarded handsomely for the act. There's a five letter word that start with the letter "B" that really sums up the situation, though the said word is considered by some to be offensive in the LBGT community.

that said, i wouldn't want to go to either. You can't be too sure what Ferrari puts in the OJ.

rkwaki 11-05-13 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by echappist (Post 16221483)
Tbf, as amoral as Dr. Ferrari is (i don't think he's immoral), he's at least technically competent. As someone else put it, Ferrari is just the front for Lance, and he got rewarded handsomely for the act. There's a five letter word that start with the letter "B" that really sums up the situation, though the said word is considered by some to be offensive in the LBGT community.

that said, i wouldn't want to go to either. You can't be too sure what Ferrari puts in the OJ.

But I would challenge the statement. To some who dream so big that they 'have' to achieve their goal, ped use is just a means to an end morally sold to themselves that 'everyone else is doing it' so I have to.

Then once you are in and see the results, getting out is much more difficult...

Fat Boy 11-05-13 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Boy (Post 16221467)
If you want to win pro bike races in 1998, 'C' doesn't cut it. While it may be the correct answer in retrospect (and one I agree with) for a host of reasons, it's not the one that many would have made at that time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsteinb (Post 16221476)
I missed the shift from what one of us would do to what would some pro would do. I would have opted for the not wanting to win a pro bike race in 1998 cause taking **** just ain't what I've wanted to do with my time.

You are smarter than the vast majority of the peloton in those days or, at the very least, have different motivations in life. I would not have been able to put in the time necessary to become a pro bike rider. Even if I had the physical ability (which I never have) it just has never motivated me in that manner. Other things, at least in the past, have. I would say at this point in life, the only thing that has that kind of grasp on me is my children, and I'm completely OK with that.

mattm 11-05-13 12:58 PM

Now that this thread has drifted into 217 territory, it should be moved there..

gsteinb 11-05-13 01:01 PM

Since it's mainly concerned the doping of juniors and juniors aren't pros, I'm pretty sure we're ok. But feel free to get your blue star on take control.

rkwaki 11-05-13 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsteinb (Post 16221658)
Since it's mainly concerned the doping of juniors and juniors aren't pros, I'm pretty sure we're ok. But feel free to get your blue star on take control.

Bwahahahahahahahahaha that was pretty funny.

Can I have a blue star?

Racer Ex 11-05-13 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkwaki (Post 16221698)
Can I have a blue star?

http://www.bloodsprayer.com/wp-conte...Lords_2011.jpg

Creakyknees 11-05-13 01:44 PM

oooooh that look... those boobs... mmmm

Creakyknees 11-05-13 01:45 PM

Anyway, what does CC being a doper / child analrapist have to do with proper training strategy for a newbie racer?

OP - go read the sticky threads at the top of this forum. Do intervals, lots of them. Suffer. Go fast. It's not really so complicated.

rkwaki 11-05-13 02:43 PM

Ex I knew there was a reason I like you...

echappist 11-05-13 02:46 PM

Who is that?

rkwaki 11-05-13 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by echappist (Post 16221939)
Who is that?

My sister...

Racer Ex 11-05-13 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by echappist (Post 16221939)
Who is that?

Jack Lord. Or Traci Lords. Hang on, let me get my glasses.

Oh lord.

echappist 11-05-13 03:59 PM

Ex, very sly word play there with the words blue and star ;)

Racer Ex 11-05-13 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creakyknees (Post 16221783)
Anyway, what does CC being a doper / child analrapist have to do with proper training strategy for a newbie racer?

You mean you still haven't had "The Talk" ?


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