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  1. #276
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    I find myself much more comfortable cornering when gravity makes speed for me than I do when I have to take a technical corner on flat terrain when I have to make the speed by pedaling->cornering->pedaling again.

  2. #277
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpeshulEd View Post
    I think CDR showed me this before...it's Peter Sagan at the Tour of Alberta practically laying the bike down around a corner.
    http://stevetilford.com/2013/09/10/peter-sagan/
    I believe he's just getting his turn started that way, not taking the entire corner leaning the bike more. Look at him descending in Tour de Suisse 2011, getting his weight inside the turn (after he catches the leader, starting at 5:20)


  3. #278
    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    Hey, what do I know. I've only got a couple of 250 GP Championships. Try this video of one of the fastest descenders in the pro peleton, start at 19s:


    Here's the front view:

    Attachment 353681

    Or just Google "Andy Schleck Descending Skills". On the off chance there's an actual video, do the exact opposite of what you see.
    old man, isn't it wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy past your bed time ? should i be sending you some melatonin for Christmas?

  4. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    Hey, what do I know. I've only got a couple of 250 GP Championships. Try this video of one of the fastest descenders in the pro peleton, start at 19s:



    Here's the front view:

    Attachment 353681

    Or just Google "Andy Schleck Descending Skills". On the off chance there's an actual video, do the exact opposite of what you see.
    If you look at Ex's picture you'll see that he's basically in line with the bike. No exaggeration leaning more or less, regardless of how it "feels". I've seen pictures of guys in corners where their shoulders are another foot or so to their right (if using Ex's picture as the "baseline"). Meaning their left shoulder was about where Ex's chin is in the picture. That's what you probably don't want, at least not in dry weather. What I find is that when I get scared and do the exaggerated body-to-the-side thing I can't do much to tighten up my line quickly. Inevitably I'm nowhere near the limits of traction so when I want to tighten up the turn (say I go into the turn conservatively and realize I can be a bit more aggressive with the apex) I find that I can't.

    At the same time if you lean the bike way more, again in an exaggerated way, you end up committed to a pretty aggressive line. (Davis) Phinney and Cancellara are two guys that seem to like to dive into turns by dropping the bike down practically to the ground. It works but it's hard to adjust your line doing that as well since it's harder to "pick up" the bike once you've pushed it down so far. Minor adjustments, okay, but say the guy in front of you slides out. You can't tighten your line by dropping the bike because your bars are practically on the ground already and it'll take a half moment to get the bike up a bit.

    Both techniques have their situations but they're more reactions/adjustments rather than baseline.

    This coming from someone that hasn't been on a motorcycle faster than about 25 mph
    "...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson

  5. #280
    Announcer EventServices's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grolby View Post
    ... it will be very hard to make yourself go into a turn at actual race speeds.
    A long time ago (before Google maps) I scoured my township until I found a 90-degree turn with a slight downhill in a quiet neighborhood. It was just under a kilometer around the block. Over and over again, faster and faster.

    I'll know there were days when I did 100 laps of that course. The residents probably thought I was crazy. Oh well.

  6. #281
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
    If you look at Ex's picture you'll see that he's basically in line with the bike. No exaggeration leaning more or less, regardless of how it "feels".
    His leg (having a lot of mass) is far off the bike's line, and the head tube points up to his left ear. I think he's pretty significantly off center, although it looks subtle.

    Jobst is cornering completely in line with the bike:

  7. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
    I believe he's just getting his turn started that way, not taking the entire corner leaning the bike more.
    I thought the same thing when I saw the picture. In fact he holds it for a good portion of the corner, maybe a third to a half of it:
    "...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson

  8. #283
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    Let me post a picture to explain "exaggerated":
    cornering.jpg
    My teammate no longer corners like that.

    Compared to that Ex, the Avocet tire picture, they're all sort of in line. A little this way, a little that way, but no Cancellara bar-scraping antics, no bike-totally-vertical motoGP stuff either.
    "...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson

  9. #284
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Ygduf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post

    Here's the front view:

    Attachment 353681

    do you do the same thing in straight-line downhill but gusty crosswind?

    In Hawaii it took me a day to get the hang of riding a straight line with 20mph crosswind and 40mph gusts. I found hanging off the bike on the windward side gave me more stability in the gusts, and kept me from being pushed into traffic.

    proof fat helps sometimes http://app.strava.com/segments/1101076
    Last edited by Ygduf; 12-03-13 at 09:45 AM.

    twitter.com/ygduf
    strava.com/athletes/ygduf

  10. #285
    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    I already know what my coach (whom I trust greatly) thinks, but for s**** and giggles, have it at.

    Right side of the picture, in leg warmers here


    White helmet, , knee kicked out, red shoes. You can see the red-colored number on my back

    Attached Images Attached Images

  11. #286
    **** that mattm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
    I thought the same thing when I saw the picture. In fact he holds it for a good portion of the corner, maybe a third to a half of it:
    [video=youtube;NC0UmFV18II]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC0UmFV18II /video]
    I think this Sagan cornering example might be the worst thing to show a cat5 learning how to corner.. it seemed like he was trying to make UHC guy flinch (which he did), thus gaining ground for the sprint.

    Seems like it has more to do with aggressive pro riding than how to take a corner correctly.
    cat 1.

    blog

  12. #287
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by echappist View Post
    I already know what my coach (whom I trust greatly) thinks, but for s**** and giggles, have it at.

    Right side of the picture, in leg warmers here


    White helmet, , knee kicked out, red shoes. You can see the red-colored number on my back

    have at what?

  13. #288
    Senior Member aaronmcd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EventServices View Post
    A long time ago (before Google maps) I scoured my township until I found a 90-degree turn with a slight downhill in a quiet neighborhood. It was just under a kilometer around the block. Over and over again, faster and faster.

    I'll know there were days when I did 100 laps of that course. The residents probably thought I was crazy. Oh well.
    So you got really damn good at cornering in one direction.

  14. #289
    Powered by Borscht ovoleg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
    do you do the same thing in straight-line downhill but gusty crosswind?

    In Hawaii it took me a day to get the hang of riding a straight line with 20mph crosswind and 40mph gusts. I found hanging off the bike on the windward side gave me more stability in the gusts, and kept me from being pushed into traffic.

    proof fat helps sometimes http://app.strava.com/segments/1101076
    lol 18 min downhill, that looks sorta fun. I forget how long Haleakala took me but that was an endless downhill with serious business crosswinds. I was nearly cooked before I got to the base of the climb because of a massive headwind from my hotel.
    -Cat-3-o-meter: TBD :/

  15. #290
    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    have at what?
    Comments, suggestions, criticisms

  16. #291
    soon to be gsteinc... rkwaki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by echappist View Post
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    Tough to tell from a still but one positive note is that you are looking through the corner which is a good...
    "if you ride it the way it's meant to be ridden there's no way any wife is less of a ***** than a bicycle." - gstein

  17. #292
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    meh.

    picture one looks like you're trying to ride on ice for the first time.

    there are other things, but they're not germane to the topic.

  18. #293
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpeshulEd View Post
    I think CDR showed me this before...it's Peter Sagan at the Tour of Alberta practically laying the bike down around a corner.
    http://stevetilford.com/2013/09/10/peter-sagan/
    If you look you can make out his right leg on the top tube and the left knee out. And back on the grassy knoll there's a guy with what appears to be an M1.

  19. #294
    Senior Member furiousferret's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by echappist View Post
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    Unlike your teammate in the 1st pic, your kit is color coordinated.

  20. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    If you look you can make out his right leg on the top tube and the left knee out. And back on the grassy knoll there's a guy with what appears to be an M1.
    This is obviously bogus. It was a Carcano.
    Regards,
    Chuck

    Demain, on roule!

  21. #296
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by revchuck View Post
    This is obviously bogus. It was a Carcano.
    That's what they'd like you to believe.

  22. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
    His leg (having a lot of mass) is far off the bike's line, and the head tube points up to his left ear. I think he's pretty significantly off center, although it looks subtle.

    Jobst is cornering completely in line with the bike:
    i never realized that he was your father.

  23. #298
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    That's what they'd like you to believe.
    Grassy Knoll guy had more than $12.88 to spend.

    Quote Originally Posted by botto View Post
    i never realized that he was your father.
    <zing!>



    Seriously though, I haven't had kit like that in months.

  24. #299
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    Why do racers generally kick out their inside knee during a turn? Do they do this while trying to keep their weight on their outside leg/foot?

  25. #300
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gramercy View Post
    Why do racers generally kick out their inside knee during a turn? Do they do this while trying to keep their weight on their outside leg/foot?
    See Ex's posts above regarding moving your center of mass to the inside of the bike's lean angle.

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