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  1. #401
    soon to be gsteinc... rkwaki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDcatV View Post
    it's raining out. should i be in the drops or should i go down to accounting and get a piece of the cake?
    Rhetorical question...




    Eat cake while in the drops...
    "if you ride it the way it's meant to be ridden there's no way any wife is less of a ***** than a bicycle." - gstein

  2. #402
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Random drops thread

  3. #403
    soon to be gsteinc... rkwaki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
    Random drops thread
    That's what you get when you have a loose cutter...
    "if you ride it the way it's meant to be ridden there's no way any wife is less of a ***** than a bicycle." - gstein

  4. #404
    In the Pain Cave thechemist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
    Random drops thread
    Wait haven't you seen rkwaki in the drops? Personally, I prefer being on top when going up.

  5. #405
    starting pistol means war YMCA's Avatar
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    Why do I keep clicking on this thread? Somebody lock it, before I waste any more of my day. No offense skiers and rkwaki beaters.
    Last edited by YMCA; 12-06-13 at 02:35 PM.

  6. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by globecanvas View Post
    Please note that this strategy only works on very short climbs.
    Doesn't have to be very short. Depends on the field and the speed. I've used such a strategy over 1-3 mile climbs before. Guess it also depends on your definition of a "very short" climb.

    If a big enough field is strung out then 30-40s isn't that much of a stretch.

    There's still a pretty significant difference in doing a climb in something like 10 minutes and doing it in 10:45.

    If you're doing a race with multiple long climbs, then employing such a strategy in the earlier parts of a race could pay dividends later on when you want to be in the thick of it.

  7. #407
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    Everyone should be doing long Z1 rides right now.
    Sorry.

  8. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDcatV View Post
    of course, but point being, there are times that regardless of skillset if you dont have the legs, you dont have the legs. our district championship race comes to mind, there's a 5-ish minute climb that is gradual but kicks at the top, then a non-descent downhill (i.e. pedaling required) into a few rollers, couple turns, into a 3-ish minute climb that is kind of steep, then goes through a few rollers. if you're off the back of climb 2, getting back to the group is very difficult.

    every year, the bigger teams drive it hard (30+ mph) into the first climb, hammer up that one, keep pressure on until the second climb and maintaining position at the front just holding wheels is big, big effort. center line makes it that much more difficult. last year, a local bigger team had their national elite guys, local elite guys, and masters elite guys for about 14 in the field and they did this lap after lap until everything snapped. MDcatV snapped 2nd time through despite being in the top 10 at the bottom of climb 2, it was all about the legs.

    to bring this back on topic, maybe if i'd been in the drops i would have won

    Having adequate fitness will always be important.

    Just suggesting there are ways to fake it a bit more once you become aware of it. If you have two guys with the same fitness but one is keyed in to staying out of the wind and surfing the pack to conserve energy on climbs and corners and selection points, then that second rider will very likely have the better finish.

    That's one of the cool (and sometimes really frustrating) things about road racing. It's not always who's the strongest that has the better result, but who uses what they have in the most effective and efficient manner for them.

    I think that's one of the really interesting things you can notice about group rides versus races. You can see guys that kill it in group rides, winning sprints or koms and whatnot, but despite being so strong they're not anywhere near the front of a race when it matters. There's a skill there that comes from gaining that experience and the more you can hone in at that in the beginning, the faster you can pick up on it.

  9. #409
    Senior Member globecanvas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by needmoreair View Post
    Doesn't have to be very short. Depends on the field and the speed. I've used such a strategy over 1-3 mile climbs before. Guess it also depends on your definition of a "very short" climb.

    If a big enough field is strung out then 30-40s isn't that much of a stretch.

    There's still a pretty significant difference in doing a climb in something like 10 minutes and doing it in 10:45.

    If you're doing a race with multiple long climbs, then employing such a strategy in the earlier parts of a race could pay dividends later on when you want to be in the thick of it.
    All depends on context and expectations, I suppose. There's a big difference between being with the front group and being 45 seconds back. It's better to have the 45 seconds in reserve than not to, of course, but it's not realistic to think that a little strategery is going to prevent you from getting dropped on a real climb if you don't have the w/kg.
    Ninny

  10. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetonrider View Post
    skiing injuries got me into cycling. without those injuries i would not be here. (some now wish i never got injured! )
    Me too.

  11. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by globecanvas View Post
    All depends on context and expectations, I suppose. There's a big difference between being with the front group and being 45 seconds back. It's better to have the 45 seconds in reserve than not to, of course, but it's not realistic to think that a little strategery is going to prevent you from getting dropped on a real climb if you don't have the w/kg.
    I guess you can continue trying to argue it if you think it actually makes a difference.

    Regardless, the point of what I've written is this: being aware of positioning and learning how to navigate the pack to get into the position you want to be in with as little energy expended as possible is what good bike racers do.

    It's something to think about, it's something to work on. There are tangible gains to be made.

    That's all.

  12. #412
    soon to be gsteinc... rkwaki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YMCA View Post
    Why do I keep clicking on this thread? Somebody lock it, before I waste any more of my day. No offense skiers and rkwaki beaters.
    i'm like crack baby
    "if you ride it the way it's meant to be ridden there's no way any wife is less of a ***** than a bicycle." - gstein

  13. #413
    Senior Member rideaz's Avatar
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    Re: the title of this thread...."When to be in the drops"....that would be when you are finishing a race with a sprint and a photographer is obviously at the finish line. I'm the only one not sprinting in the drops. Embarrassing newbie photo!
    http://www.zazoosh.com/photos/837011944

  14. #414
    Senior Member
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    I guess crossing the line before the other ladies took some of the sting from the embarrassment.
    Regards,
    Chuck

    Demain, on roule!

  15. #415
    illusoryly superior Ygduf's Avatar
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    goto 9:23

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  16. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by needmoreair View Post
    I guess you can continue trying to argue it if you think it actually makes a difference.

    Regardless, the point of what I've written is this: being aware of positioning and learning how to navigate the pack to get into the position you want to be in with as little energy expended as possible is what good bike racers do.

    It's something to think about, it's something to work on. There are tangible gains to be made.

    That's all.
    I can only speak for me, but I'm certainly not arguing against positioning and pack navigation being critical skills that a good bike racer needs to have. I've made a racing career out of using these aspects of bike racing to play above my pay grade.

    ima drift climbing mutha fugga.

  17. #417
    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    if you name is Martyn Ashton or if you want to be like him? Always


  18. #418
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    Damned! Those guys are good. I've really been enjoying the videos they've been putting out.

    "Let's go for a road ride. 'It'll be fun.', he said"
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  19. #419
    starting pistol means war YMCA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDcatV View Post
    ima drift climbing mutha fugga.
    fat guy fade

  20. #420
    In the Pain Cave thechemist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by echappist View Post
    if you name is Martyn Ashton or if you want to be like him? Always

    Dayum...

  21. #421
    Senior Member globecanvas's Avatar
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    Ninny

  22. #422
    Senior Member aaronmcd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by echappist View Post
    if you name is Martyn Ashton or if you want to be like him? Always

    1) How many tries did it take him to land on that train track rail?
    2) It didn’t show him finish the front flip.
    3) How did he get permission to ride in water parks?
    4) His drops are higher than most hoods.

  23. #423
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaronmcd View Post
    1) How many tries did it take him to land on that train track rail?
    2) It didn’t show him finish the front flip.
    3) How did he get permission to ride in water parks?
    4) His drops are higher than most hoods.
    1) They've been pretty open with their blooper reals from previous films. They make no pretenses about nailing any of the stunts in one try.
    2) They didn't and I wondered the same thing on that one.
    3) All of those guys are professional bmx/freestyle/trials riders. I suspect that opens doors for them (legally) that the rest of us wouldn't stand a chance with. They're projects have been too high profile and sponsor supported for them to be doing much on the downlow. Unlike so many of the freestyle & skate videos that you see.
    4)It's not that his drops are that high, it's that his (their) saddle is slammed down on the top tube for all the obvious reasons.

    Real bummer about his back injury. I hope he recovers use of his lower extremities. I broke my lower back in '94 and suffer from the complications to this day. I have another friend who did his in the same year and hasn't walked or picked up anything with a hand since. I hope Martyn recovers some of his mobility.
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  24. #424
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YMCA View Post
    fat guy fade
    Texas climbing.

  25. #425
    illusoryly superior Ygduf's Avatar
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    ^^ replace all present tense with past.

    Martyn didn't finish filming after a severe spinal injury at a trials event. It's a bummer. Don't try these at home.

    twitter.com/ygduf
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