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-   -   Why did manufacturers move towards proprietary seatposts? (http://www.bikeforums.net/33-road-bike-racing/924027-why-did-manufacturers-move-towards-proprietary-seatposts.html)

bigfred 11-28-13 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carleton (Post 16283596)
What about the non-round shaped posts? Those cause the most issues that I've seen (even from 170lb guys). The posts will slip into the frame.

Also, the 1-bolt seat clamp systems that allow for minute adjustments, but are prone to tilting when "on the rivet". The 2-bolt systems don't tilt.

This is an example:

http://www.rockandroadbikes.com/img/pds2/2818-3055.jpg

vs

http://www.worldclasscycles.com/machined_master.jpg


Is it a game of ounces where they choose these posts because they use less metal hardware?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tetonrider (Post 16285138)
i got it...but then you concluded with a question wondering if decisions are about weight.

i am bolt-agnostic; i currently have a few bikes with 1-bolt posts and a few with 2-bolt setups. all else equal, a 1-bolt setup IS lighter. i find them a bit touchier to set up because multiple things can change at once, but i generally don't have a problem with the angle changing while riding if torqued properly. could be a function of my weight and riding style, though.

It was Carleton who initially posed the question about the single bolt systems.

Your point about the weight of Specialized components makes some of their decissions all the more confusing.

They truly are just pandering to the "style" they believe people will buy. But, they're there to make money, not convince us that what we actually need isn't what we think we want.

carpediemracing 11-28-13 01:34 AM

I think that some ISP frames are designed such that the ISP bit can absorb some shock? I'm thinking of the Giant and I think a Time frame?

Of course I'm the one that used an adapter shim so I could use a 27.2 in my 31.6 ST Cannondale, so you're preaching to the choir.

I guess this will nip my desire to go looking for an aero zero-setback 27.2 seat post for a month or two.

tetonrider 11-28-13 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigfred (Post 16285321)
It was Carleton who initially posed the question about the single bolt systems.

Your point about the weight of Specialized components makes some of their decissions all the more confusing.

They truly are just pandering to the "style" they believe people will buy. But, they're there to make money, not convince us that what we actually need isn't what we think we want.

yessir…but it was carelton's post i initially quoted (with the reference to weight and posts and trade-offs). sorry for thinking it was you when you later replied questioning it.

i'm not sure i would use the term pandering. pretty sure most people realize specialized is a company in it for the money.

also, i was just sharing an anecdote that even at their top-level bike they still have to make some trade-offs. the conversation i had with the engineers is actually how impressed they are (and these are skeptical types) with the way those decisions are made. the product manager ultimately makes the call.

yeah, seems weird to have a heavier post (why not have a vibration-absorbing AND light post?) on one's top-end bike, but when you think that they have actual production costs and margins that they want to hit…and when they've determined that $10,500 is the sweet-spot and not $10,650, they have to trim somewhere. the point from the engineers was that to their amazement they will take the input of the engineers and, say, not scale back on the quality of the suspension in this case but rather where it will do the least harm to the ride characteristics.

i found the anecdote interesting. big companies often get a bad rap when it comes to making decisions purely on numbers. was nice to hear that it is not only about the #s for them. these are guys who are not without options in terms of employment, so they were pleased that their work has an impact on the bikes that are offered for sale.

anyway, back somewhat to our regularly-scheduled topic: in this example, the post is not a proprietary size so it is easy enough for people to see the included post and buy a new one. i tend to prefer bikes with standard size posts as i usually swap them out for something that better meets my needs, but in the cases where i have bikes with proprietary posts at least there is some semblance of consistency (aero road frame gets an aero post; TT bike has an aero post).

Racer Ex 11-28-13 10:46 PM

Lose some weight lard butt. Only half of the proprietary posts I've had slipped.

bigfred 11-28-13 11:17 PM

I guess we can simplify it to: They keep building them, because we (the greater cycling pop. in general) keep buying them.

carleton 11-29-13 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racer Ex (Post 16287193)
Lose some weight lard butt. Only half of the proprietary posts I've had slipped.

Hahahaha!

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigfred (Post 16287232)
I guess we can simplify it to: They keep building them, because we (the greater cycling pop. in general) keep buying them.

True.

JerrySTL 11-29-13 11:53 AM

My Giant Defy Advanced has a CF teardrop shaped seatpost for an 'aero' advantage. Of course I usually have a big seat bag hanging behind it disturbing whatever area advantage there is.

I had to buy a $35 adapter kit from Giant so that I could use my workstand on the post.

Then like a big dummy I managed to over-torque the seat post clamp and ruin the seatpost. Instead of just buying any 27.2 post, I had to special order the teardrop shaped post for $200. I also bought a small torque wrench and some Tacx Carbon Prep so I won't make that mistake again.

gsteinb 11-29-13 12:05 PM

in a decade we'll look at ISPs the way we view scott drop-ins and briko glasses

bigfred 11-29-13 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsteinb (Post 16288132)
in a decade we'll look at ISPs the way we view scott drop-ins and briko glasses

That's fine. As long as we don't put them in the same category as Factory Pilots.

carpediemracing 11-29-13 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsteinb (Post 16288132)
in a decade we'll look at ISPs the way we view scott drop-ins and briko glasses

Farg. You ruined my plans for the spring. I'm going to take the Drop-Ins off my bike now and take the inserts out of the Brikos.

Andy STi 11-29-13 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by misterwaterfall (Post 16283845)
what if i'm in the drops doing sst dirty 30 over unders at 90% ftp while my seat post slips on my way to the race?

perfect!

Ygduf 11-29-13 04:52 PM

want
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_TNeIJlWhUu...niBrikoZen.jpg

bigfred 11-29-13 06:46 PM

Classic
http://www.oakley.com/a/84/62/BAh7CG...ZIaQhpAmIB.jpg

LesterOfPuppets 11-29-13 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carleton (Post 16283520)
So, why the move to proprietary seatposts? As a heavy guy that has had several proprietary posts slip/tilt during training and racing, they simply don't work as well as the standard 27.2 posts. I won't even consider buying a frame that doesn't use 27.2.

If you go way back even 27.2 was kinda rare.

25.4 is probably the most common size over time, including cheep bikes.

Larger sizes came about as the desire for larger OD, thinner-walled tubing came about.

People are saying this is a 41 thing but I'm thinking both the 10 and the 229 would yield better answers than 41 or 33.

botto 11-29-13 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsteinb (Post 16288132)
in a decade we'll look at ISPs the way we view scott drop-ins and briko glasses

:thumb: :lol:

mollusk 11-29-13 10:24 PM

I have some of the bad player seat posts on some of my bikes. My old (1986) Serotta "Sunday Driver" has an aero Campy C-Record seat post. Gorgeous piece of metal, but very heavy. The whole C-Record group is heavy, but shifts like butter and is visually pleasing.

My rain bike that I bought on Ebay has the notorious USE Alien seat post. That only went into fail mode once and not sliding into the seat tube. The bit that holds the seat in place loosened up. It is currently out on loan to a team mate that had his bike stolen.

My race bike has a straight Thomson Elite. Never a problem.

Skyline516 11-29-13 11:21 PM

I purchased my noah rs because I was seduced by the aero stylings and fancy space-age look which included the aesthetics of the seatpost. Companies take advantage of those thoughts to get people to buy their stuff and it worked, in my case. Personally though, I have not had a problem since I assembled it and I weigh 100 kilos.


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