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Lifelong Bib # Assignments

Old 12-09-13, 12:41 PM
  #26  
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One cloth number comment, a couple of local cross Series decided on series long cloth numbers this year, and after a few months some of them are starting to look pretty ragged.
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Old 12-09-13, 12:46 PM
  #27  
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We get a separate cross number (tyvek type) for all the cross races here too. Our cloth road numbers hold up quite well.
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Old 12-09-13, 12:49 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by EventServices
USAC currently requires numbers.

But what we're REALLY after is this:

Random spectator along the course can punch in any bib number into an phone or iPad app and find out who the rider is. The announcer (that no one listens to, ever) can do the same thing.
Riders can create their own publicity profile that the spectator sees including prior results, stats, photos, and such superfluous things as "I ride in honor of my friend who has cancer." Or "Team party after the race at XX Brew Pub! Join us."
Or other meaningful message (that we would sell the gsteinb for $5 plus shipping and handling).

Can't do that with chips.
I suppose you could create a hand held scanner device. Let me know how that goes.

With chips you get instant results though. To use your phone example a spectator could not just look for numbers, but see the race in real time if its passing a timer (ie a crit or circuit course). Your example assumes a number is published to the name somewhere, which around here it isn't. A chip you just go on sportstats/mylaps and you get results immediately.
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Old 12-09-13, 01:00 PM
  #29  
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Interesting thoughts.

One thing that can be changed but is currently a rule is that numbers have to be on a white background (and I think the number is supposed to be black). This is USAC any way.

A new rule for this year is that promoters are responsible for getting results. Not just posting them, actually getting them. This means officials won't care about leading or trailing numbers as long as they can keep straight who is lapped, who got a free lap, etc. The results are all up to the promoter. If the promoter thinks that having a 9 digit number is fine then it's fine - it'll be the promoter's responsibility to get results.

I've never used chips, basically scared off by the buy in (just like I've been scared by the buy in for a FinishLynx system). What is the chip system in FL?

I pay about $1200-1500 for a 7 week series with 6 fields, two fields with 125 field limits (but one field of 50). I issue new numbers each week after having some riders try to jump in races with prior weeks' numbers. For liability reasons I can't have that so therefore new numbers weekly (and I try and mix up the leading number each week).
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Old 12-09-13, 01:43 PM
  #30  
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I actually rode the NY Spring Series as #1 as defending champion one year. That was actually kind of cool.
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Old 12-09-13, 01:46 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by carpediemracing
What is the chip system in FL?
We bought a system from MyLaps many moons ago. Purchased it as a local association for the whole state to use (I was on the board as VP for 5 years), but as we (promoter I work for) started developing our own software to get specific needs addressed, we decided to buy it from the LA.

Since then, another promoter has bought their own equipment as well
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Old 12-09-13, 02:54 PM
  #32  
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Hi, here's an end user perspective. For a few years, a local promoter was also running his own sanctioning body (like OBRA and ABRA). He had a deal where you bought a year's worth of entries (it was a very good deal if you raced a lot) and you got a permanent, cloth number. I did that for two years and I liked it.

I liked:

Being able to pin on my number the night before
Having the same number for all of his races -- no more, "What number am I?"
Not having to add excessively to my box full of numbers in my garage

The promoter dealt with

People without permanent numbers, which was the majority of racers
People forgetting numbers -- I forgot once and they gave me the same number but in Tyvek (which became my spare number)

Since you only got the permanent number if you bought the full year deal, the promoter did not have to with people trying to sneak into races.

Now the promoter does USAC sanctioned races so the permanent numbers are gone. Also, I hate that USAC or our local USAC body (SCNCA) requires a different number for every race. It seems like such a waste. As a rider, pinning on multiple numbers, if I'm doing multiple races, sucks. I presume promoters hate buying so many numbers when they know statistically, certain races have large numbers of people who do multiple races. For instance, a large percent of 55+/65+ guys also race 50+ at criteriums where they schedule those categories. That's something like 30 racers. A similar thing happens with 50+ and 45+.

I'd love to have a permanent number again and an alphanumeric or color coding scheme would be fine with me.
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Old 12-09-13, 03:14 PM
  #33  
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Chips are great for 99.9% of the time, but the chip is never placed at the leading edge of the tire crossing the line. You still need numbers and cameras for that when it is really close. Until the winner of the race is defined as having the first chip to cross the line we will need the conventional things as well.

Having a number pinned on helps the officials with DQ'ing riders that are breaking rules. The official on the moto can't read your chip number.
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Old 12-09-13, 03:44 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by mollusk
Chips are great for 99.9% of the time, but the chip is never placed at the leading edge of the tire crossing the line. You still need numbers and cameras for that when it is really close. Until the winner of the race is defined as having the first chip to cross the line we will need the conventional things as well.

Having a number pinned on helps the officials with DQ'ing riders that are breaking rules. The official on the moto can't read your chip number.
In 8 years of chip timing, we've yet to have anyone complain that their chip was placed badly on their bike. They accept the result. We have had a few ties, down to the 1/1000th of a second. And if you looked at a camera, when it is that close, you'd not be able to tell anyway. Timing systems have made a HUGE difference in scoring. It is immediate, correct and can place every single person.

Yes numbers are still important, for line judges and moto-officials and back-up to what the chip says. Also, a chip could have gone bad and having the rider scored by the s/f judge gives us a better chance of getting results 100% correct. Not something we could ever say in the days before transponders!

I hope Jamie can find a solution for Michigan. If I think of any ideas, I'll post.
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Old 12-09-13, 04:24 PM
  #35  
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Chip timing is not perfect, but it is really close to perfect and way better than most everything else. It just bothers me that it doesn't conform exactly to what the rules say about finishing.

Maybe long term we can think about having race jerseys for each team have a rectangle in the lower middle of the back with a contrasting background and a number (white and black work). Above that is the name of the race team clearly displayed. Now every rider is identified by team and number within the team.
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Old 12-09-13, 04:32 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by gtrob
With chips you get instant results though. To use your phone example a spectator could not just look for numbers, but see the race in real time if its passing a timer (ie a crit or circuit course). Your example assumes a number is published to the name somewhere, which around here it isn't. A chip you just go on sportstats/mylaps and you get results immediately.
But they may or may not represent the actual order of finish in a photo finish.

I know officials who've done major races that used chips for the TTs and it was a mess. I have yet to see good documentation of reliable order of finish for multiple riders in a close "photo finish", and that includes directly asking the mylaps people for it when they were trying to tell me I should consider their system for a venue where I was promoting a lot of races. Given the size of the sensor loop, I'm skeptical.
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Old 12-09-13, 05:02 PM
  #37  
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Let's not get too far into the Chip Debate. That's a larger issue, and we're still in the Dark Ages technologically.

I'm just trying to work on the identification of riders by officials, spectators, and other riders.

Actually, I'm just trying to get away from pinning my teammate's number on while we're standing at the start line.

We could color code the bibs very easily, but when an official scores a race by hand (which they're still required to do), you can't have identical numbers in the pack even if the background is a different color because they're writing the numbers down in real time (though some rely on video to capture the passing peloton). It's too much to write down. And to that end, they only want to score two-digit numbers which is why they want entire fields in one number sequence when possible.

That's why they don't want, for example, a 35+ rider racing in the P-1-2 who wants to wear his 35+ number which is Yellow 135. And he's riding alongside a P-1-2 rider wearing White 135. The official would pull out a gun and shoot one of them dead rather than have to score two 135s.
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Old 12-09-13, 05:14 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by gtrob
With chips you get instant results though. To use your phone example a spectator could not just look for numbers, but see the race in real time if its passing a timer (ie a crit or circuit course). Your example assumes a number is published to the name somewhere, which around here it isn't. A chip you just go on sportstats/mylaps and you get results immediately.
And you could pull out your phone mid-pack and see who is in the break up the road and the time gap! How cool would that be .
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Old 12-09-13, 05:24 PM
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There's no cell coverage at the back of the pack.
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Old 12-09-13, 05:28 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by EventServices
There's no cell coverage at the back of the pack.
No cell phones at all in Offthebackistan.
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Old 12-09-13, 05:30 PM
  #41  
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if I didn't like my number, I would complain.

8s are unlucky and all that.
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Old 12-09-13, 05:35 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by mollusk
No cell phones at all in Offthebackistan.
In Offthebackistan you can stop at a Starbucks and use their wifi access.
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Old 12-09-13, 06:02 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by cmh
In Offthebackistan you can stop at a Starbucks and use their wifi access.
No Starbuck there either. If you are lucky there is a Waffle House, but the coffee is 5 hours old.

Don't ask why I know so much about that god forsaken place.
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Old 12-09-13, 11:39 PM
  #44  
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<cough> chip timing <cough>
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Old 12-09-13, 11:41 PM
  #45  
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is it really so hard to post a start list to a facebook page as soon as reg closes?
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Old 12-10-13, 12:49 AM
  #46  
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I've raced bicycles and motorcycles. Racing in the MC world you get a number for life. Now it's all done with transponders, numbers are just for the programs. I like the idea of transponders for bicycle racing. You get a readout of your lap times, and you finish position.
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