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  1. #1
    gmt Grumpy McTrumpy's Avatar
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    Calling all crit experts and race directors

    semi-hypothetical, semi-real situation:

    1. Downtown crit, .8 mile loop, 4 corners (sorta, but no more than 4)

    2. Medians in the center of the lane on half of the streets. Even a pedestrian bridge column. The other half of the streets are full-width...

    3. Full road closure. Lots of $$ and resources (think USACrits)

    4. Knowing that you can pick and choose which lane will be the "race" lane where it goes narrow, would you choose the inside or the outside lane?

    5. Would you leave the wide streets wide? Or would you try to narrow the entire course.

    6. Suggestions

  2. #2
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    I think I'd choose which side of dividers based on what people are going to crash into. If the outside is easier/safer to bale up, then go there. Same with the inside. It might make sense to change it up on different sides of your rectangle. I'd also consider manhole cover placement

    A course (direction, street names, and Google Maps link) would be good for a quick look-see at the specifics of each corner.

    Leave wide parts wide, IMO. Cones are more likely to be involved in a crash than curbs for some dumb reason.

  3. #3
    soon to be gsteinc... rkwaki's Avatar
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    I'm agreeing with WR. Would need to see layout. First thing I look for is bailout areas and what am I going to hit while going the fastest.
    "if you ride it the way it's meant to be ridden there's no way any wife is less of a ***** than a bicycle." - gstein

  4. #4
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    need pics. crit racers are dumb and I can't follow the description.

  5. #5
    soon to be gsteinc... rkwaki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    need pics. crit racers are dumb and I can't follow the description.
    Yup...
    "if you ride it the way it's meant to be ridden there's no way any wife is less of a ***** than a bicycle." - gstein

  6. #6
    gmt Grumpy McTrumpy's Avatar
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    ok, I didn't have an interactive map so I made one:

    http://ridewithgps.com/routes/4083521

    clockwise

  7. #7
    soon to be gsteinc... rkwaki's Avatar
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    I'd push it all the way out (see attached)

    Capture.JPG
    "if you ride it the way it's meant to be ridden there's no way any wife is less of a ***** than a bicycle." - gstein

  8. #8
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    The only section that really matters in the set up is turn 1. The other turns all open into full width roads then get divided later down the stretch(turn 3 enters on either the inside or outside of the median but exits to the full width road). I would go outside

  9. #9
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    are you reworking tather?

  10. #10
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkwaki View Post
    I'd push it all the way out (see attached)

    Capture.JPG
    Yeah, that first median divider sign is no good for the inside.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterwaterfall View Post
    The only section that really matters in the set up is turn 1. The other turns all open into full width roads then get divided later down the stretch(turn 3 enters on either the inside or outside of the median but exits to the full width road). I would go outside
    I dunno. I like the idea of baling up the ped bridge supports more than baling up the parking meters (or crashing into them). Of course, they start up on the right side when they go away on the left side. Hmm. I think I like the inside on that Water/Henry section. Widens before the corner.

    I like tighter courses with tougher corners, and I think the right side of Water offers a tighter exit but more road for it. So beginning racers will be going a bit slower, and have more room. The faster groups will go balls-out through either side.
    Last edited by waterrockets; 02-21-14 at 03:42 PM.

  11. #11
    gmt Grumpy McTrumpy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    are you reworking tather?
    Yeah. It's not up to me, but I think I can attract the attention of the people in charge by offering suggestions as to how to set the course up.

  12. #12
    Senior Member grolby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
    I like tighter courses with tougher corners
    Agreed, not just because I enjoy these more but because I think it typically makes for a safer race, if that's an important concern (and it should be, right?). Some of the scariest crits I've ever done have had the fewest/easiest corners.

  13. #13
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy View Post
    Yeah. It's not up to me, but I think I can attract the attention of the people in charge by offering suggestions as to how to set the course up.
    what's wrong with the old set up?

    hard to tell much from the attachment as to elevation gain, etc. but I'd hope it remains a challenging course.

  14. #14
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    I'd go with the inside. In satellite view the roads look wider. On the south east curve everyone will want to go inside, the short line.

    Even the first turn is not bad if you approach from the inside since the sidewalk to the outside is as wide as the road.

    Elevation says +/-9 feet so it's flat.
    "...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson

  15. #15
    gmt Grumpy McTrumpy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    what's wrong with the old set up?

    hard to tell much from the attachment as to elevation gain, etc. but I'd hope it remains a challenging course.
    The Henry street section is a slight climb, more than 9 feet, but it's not a hill like the old Thater. They moved it because people just weren't coming to watch the races, and meanwhile the downtown is very busy on Saturday nights, so it will be a real twilight crit (the pro race anyway) and lots of college kids watching.

    They hope this will happen.

  16. #16
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    gotcha. I'm on vacation, so it's just curiosity

  17. #17
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    I've stayed at that Holiday Inn so I'm familiar with the area. I'll go against the grain and side with Kwaki, I like the full outside of the course. It will make it faster and safer. However, it also makes it less technical, and without a real hill, an equalizer. This takes away from little guys like me who need the hill to grind down the sprinters. So while I am less suited to this course, I'd welcome the change. You'd get a nice crowd.

  18. #18
    Announcer EventServices's Avatar
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    Both lines work fine, but I'd definitely commit to one or the other. Some riders will find a way to exploit a split, and others will be completely befuddled by it. The fewer choices you give a IV or V, the safer it'll be.
    But Pro-1-2 riders would figure out how to ride it during warm-up.

    I like the inside line all the way around.

  19. #19
    ride lots be safe Creakyknees's Avatar
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    "have fun and be kind"
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  20. #20
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    "I train with Cat2's"

  21. #21
    gmt Grumpy McTrumpy's Avatar
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    Interesting that opinions are divided between the inside and outside line. I was thinking outside would be safest. The part I dislike the most about the inside is the little lane shift that happens on Water Street when you encounter the bridge support.

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