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Old 03-01-14, 08:11 AM   #1
clones2
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Whats your speed around 275 watts?

3rd yr racing - starting to train with power next week (quarq) - won't be outside for almost a month with the weather here - so Id thought Id ask the question out of curiosity.

Im looking at this strictly related to EFFICIENCY and road bike position. I'm wondering if any of you care to share data of what your speeds are between 250 - 275 watts, riding solo, position on the hoods or drops, flattish section of road. This would be with your racing setup or something close to it.

Around 275 watts - I dont think Im getting as much speed as I could based on my position etc... - I dont run a very aggressive position. I would estimate my speed around 22.5mph. I'm wondering if I can push this to 23.5 or 24 on the same watts strictly changing MY personal position. 75kg fwiw

I'll take whatever data you throw my way. Thanks.

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Old 03-01-14, 08:37 AM   #2
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winter or summer? headwind or tailwind?

one thing you realize very soon when you have a PM is the effect of air density and wind. in which case, i'd suggest you stop worrying about everyone else and make good use of the Chung Aerolab on a windless day.
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Old 03-01-14, 08:40 AM   #3
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I'll take whatever data you throw my way. Thanks.
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Old 03-01-14, 08:56 AM   #4
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winter or summer? headwind or tailwind?

one thing you realize very soon when you have a PM is the effect of air density and wind. in which case, i'd suggest you stop worrying about everyone else and make good use of the Chung Aerolab on a windless day.
Obviously as close to zero wind as possible... I'm not worrying about everyone else - Im worrying about MY effeciency and learning from others works best. This is information I will use to be a better racer - so comparing myself to others is very appropriate.

With my speed at FTP currently, I have no business trying to make a solo break work - I don't have the watts and speed.

I just love data and training to get faster.
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Old 03-01-14, 09:11 AM   #5
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I get that. It really is a question directly related to CdA - I thought I'd get flamed a hell of a lot worse asking everyone what their CdA was... :-) I guess Ive got a CdA around .34 - that seems like a meaningful addition to the thread - /sarc.

I'll be spending some time this spring testing that out with my own power meter. Just thought some folks would like to talk numbers, regardless of the variability.

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Old 03-01-14, 09:19 AM   #6
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Sorry, you responded to my post but I had already deleted it because I wasn't really adding anything to the discussion.

For a reference point, I did a mostly flat, mostly windless TT on a hot day, on a road bike and averaged 275 watts and 25.1 mph. But there are so many other factors that comparing speed is almost as pointless as asking what average speed you need to win a race. I'm sure we could both improve our CdA.
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Old 03-01-14, 09:38 AM   #7
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^^ Thanks globe. I am able to do a lot of my training on relatively flat roads without many stops at all. I plan on doing a lot testing in the coming weeks plotting my watts to speed in different positions etc to see if I can gleam anything interesting.

Ive learned through experience that I do not have the speed at FTP to stay away solo... :-) more training necessary... I do however have the watts for 30 sec power to contest sprints in cat 3/4 though... So my race strategy now is hang till the end, chase when I need to, and hope for the best. Need to train my weaknesses I guess.

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Old 03-01-14, 09:51 AM   #8
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It really depends on so much. For example i've done intervals at 330-360 and only averaged 24 mph, and i've done rides at much less that averaged much higher.

For a bit of anecdotal evidence, i had a portion of my ride the other day (primarily hoods/tops due to the sheer length of the ride) where i averaged about 20 mph at 275 watts. For most flat bits i was close to, if not over 40 kph when there was no wind, i was up to about 50+ when there was a tail wind, and i dropped as low as 20 when i was riding into a headwind. Speed depends on so much, and i wouldn't worry about it.
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Old 03-01-14, 10:01 AM   #9
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I plan on doing a lot testing in the coming weeks plotting my watts to speed in different positions etc to see if I can gleam anything interesting.
That's what Aerolab is for.
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Old 03-01-14, 10:26 AM   #10
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Nice - I'll make sure to look into Aerolab in detail
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Old 03-01-14, 11:03 AM   #11
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around 42kmh. At the indoor track on sprint bars.
around 12kmh. Up a mountain.
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Old 03-01-14, 11:14 AM   #12
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I am an avid student of this topic since a) I'm a big guy and b) I'm inflexible...so I'm a CdA outlier.

A couple of times a year, on a windless day, I'll spend the workout riding a 3/4 mile loop that has no stop signs or traffic and has a 100' climb. I run this through GC and guestimate my CdA. It's been a great learning experience, with some surprising results. So far it hasn't helped me win any races...

Other articles I've read:
http://www.cyclingpowerlab.com/cyclingaerodynamics.aspx
http://www.bikeradar.com/us/road/gea...is-aero-19273/

Edited to add:
"Other articles" because it almost goes without saying that I am a benefactor of RChung's postings here and elsewhere and because of what he's enabled GC to do.
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Old 03-01-14, 11:28 AM   #13
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When I was training and riding sub hour 40's I calculated my wattage needs at 275 if the course was relatively flat and there was little to no wind.

Curbing out at 145 helps as it lowers the wattage requirements.
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Old 03-01-14, 11:33 AM   #14
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When I was training and riding sub hour 40's I calculated my wattage needs at 275 if the course was relatively flat and there was little to no wind.

Curbing out at 145 helps as it lowers the wattage requirements.
For me it is about 41...
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Old 03-01-14, 04:33 PM   #15
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Obviously as close to zero wind as possible... I'm not worrying about everyone else - Im worrying about MY effeciency and learning from others works best. This is information I will use to be a better racer - so comparing myself to others is very appropriate.

With my speed at FTP currently, I have no business trying to make a solo break work - I don't have the watts and speed.

I just love data and training to get faster.
i once thought just like you, and didn't get too far in my racing. not saying that you won't get places with the same mindset, but just note that it's a fool's errand and could lead to burnout.

also, don't discount the effect of temperature due to at least a few reasons: a) air density (and humidity) really affect things, and even on a windless day, there's quite a bit of difference btwn 40F and 70F, and those efforts are not comparable if you are going solely by speed to gauge things and b) heat and lack thereof can impact physiological performance itself.
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Old 03-01-14, 06:26 PM   #16
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Around 275 watts - I dont think Im getting as much speed as I could based on my position etc... - I dont run a very aggressive position. I would estimate my speed around 22.5mph. I'm wondering if I can push this to 23.5 or 24 on the same watts strictly changing MY personal position. 75kg fwiw

I'll take whatever data you throw my way. Thanks.
I'm right around there in normal conditions. Maybe 23-24 with no wind or no head/crosswind.

I'm the same weight and run a bit more of an aggressive position.
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Old 03-01-14, 06:29 PM   #17
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With my speed at FTP currently, I have no business trying to make a solo break work - I don't have the watts and speed.
Solo breaks aren't so much about what you alone can do most of the time. It's about what you can do and what the pack allows you to do. Unless it's a hellish part of a hellacious race and you are just head and shoulders above everyone else, you're not going to ride away from the field unless they make a mistake.
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Old 03-01-14, 11:23 PM   #18
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A couple of times a year, on a windless day, I'll spend the workout riding a 3/4 mile loop that has no stop signs or traffic and has a 100' climb. I run this through GC and guestimate my CdA. It's been a great learning experience, with some surprising results. So far it hasn't helped me win any races...
Cool, ain't it? I've learned a lot from measuring CdA (and a little bit of measuring Crr). The main thing I've learned is that there are lots of small things you can do that together add up to reasonably large benefit.
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Old 03-01-14, 11:45 PM   #19
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For me it is about 41...
this
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Old 03-01-14, 11:49 PM   #20
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you're in NorCal and you're not going to ride for another month due to weather?

Is this real life?
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Old 03-01-14, 11:52 PM   #21
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Obviously as close to zero wind as possible... I'm not worrying about everyone else - Im worrying about MY effeciency and learning from others works best. This is information I will use to be a better racer - so comparing myself to others is very appropriate.

With my speed at FTP currently, I have no business trying to make a solo break work - I don't have the watts and speed.

I just love data and training to get faster.
If you can get a solo break to work, you're in the wrong category. Unless you're talking about a last lap flyer or no one wanting to chase you down.
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Old 03-02-14, 12:48 AM   #22
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I'm somewhere between hyper speed and plaid.
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Old 03-02-14, 04:59 PM   #23
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Buckle this

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Old 03-03-14, 07:36 PM   #24
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Solo breaks aren't so much about what you alone can do most of the time. It's about what you can do and what the pack allows you to do. Unless it's a hellish part of a hellacious race and you are just head and shoulders above everyone else, you're not going to ride away from the field unless they make a mistake.
Hey you racing this year?
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Old 03-03-14, 08:07 PM   #25
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looking through some files, 20 min efforts at 275-ish watts on my road bike are average speed about 23.5 to 24 mph.
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