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  1. #26
    Senior Member Moyene Corniche's Avatar
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    KSR is not what it used to be, I'm referring to pre 97 . I 1st raced it as a Cat IV in its inaugural year of 1987... OMG what a mess... Loved the race, hated the promoter, Mauricio Puente i believe was the name... everyday the results were completely screwed up. I still clearly remember the last stage, passing the No 6th GC rider on the last climb who was no more than 10 seconds ahead of me on GC, eclipsing the deficit and looking at my final GC as 11th... I argued and waited for well over 2-1/2 hours to get the results corrected ( unsuccessfully ) .... BTW there was most of the fields riders in the same predicament of messed up results ...
    That experience however did not keep me from returning for the next 10 years... Today it would be great if it returned to a 5 day Stage Race format like what it used to be.... 3 days is not enough to separate the Stage Racers from the racers that can bury themselves for 2-3 days .. A long weekend.... But at the 4th day is the critical pendulum where and when you can really see who is spiraling out of control and who is minimizing their loss of form.... No way around it, in a Stage Race everyone degrades, but not at the same percentage....

    My advice for KSR is to plan for the worst... Meaning it will probably rain and it will probably be cold.... After the winter we just had ( thought it was over but yesterday was a cool reminder ) I would expect the road surfaces to be interesting. Bring good climbing wheels, as that will be the critical factor.... Look at the bible but take the gradient printed as an approximation. I have never raced in Vermont where the uphill sections felt like the bible described.... They are more often optimistic... Mainly because sections of the KSR climbs will kick up and throw you completely off.. It's a great race, a lot of people work really hard to make it a pleasurable event ( oxymoron ) for the racers.... ( I can appreciate the effort as I used to promote a 2 day Stage Race ) Do get there at the latest early on the day before the 1st stage..... A reconnaissance of the race route is really an advantage if you have never been there.... Killington is quite spread out, you can ride to the start of the bear mtn tram area but if you are solo I wouldn't advise it, especially if the weather is inclement... ( probably will be ).
    Do some research on past events of the KSR, a picture or vids are priceless....
    I will not be returning to racing until next year, possibly this September at the earliest....
    But I may drive up and do some photography if possible...
    Good Luck.....
    Last edited by Moyene Corniche; 04-17-14 at 09:21 PM.

  2. #27
    Senior Member grolby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetonrider View Post
    would love to make it to KSR, though. any takers?
    Oh hell no. Maybe next year. MAYBE. Probably not.

  3. #28
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moyene Corniche View Post
    KSR is not what it used to be, I'm referring to pre 97.
    Is any race today like it used to be? Having raced the significant Northeast races in the 80's, no way. That doesn't make them less relevant or exciting to ride. I'm just happy to see some of the local classics return, like Fitchburg, Mayor's Cup.

  4. #29
    Senior Member Moyene Corniche's Avatar
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    I was really just pointing out the difference in 5 to 3 days of racing... Nor did I infer that KSR @ 3 days is irrelevant ... It is still a difficult 3 days but different ... Hopefully Yes... some of the classics I remember will return to their former glory.... Having a Stage Race longer than 3 days is a good thing, but 3 days is better than none... I hope the format changes for next year as ( IMHO ) KSR should emphasize climbing, a relatively flat TT just doesn't fit with KSR .....
    Of the 2 VT races KSR and GMSR, those should not resemble races further south, That is what always attracted me to the Vermont races like the Mad River Race... Some of the most difficult climbing courses in New England. That was what I planned my season on, doing well on races like Sunapee, Granby, Housatonic and then dialing it up for the real hills.......

    I missed going up to KSR last year and was last up in 2012 to take photo's ... OP was asking what is KSR about... I was just illustrating that it is different but definitely relevant and difficult albeit shorter..
    Ah.... Voila les Cannon ... !!

  5. #30
    Senior Member globecanvas's Avatar
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    tetonrider (or anyone else), my teammate is racing KSR and looking for somebody to split accommodations. Send me a message if you're interested.
    Ninny

  6. #31
    . botto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    Is any race today like it used to be? Having raced the significant Northeast races in the 80's, no way. That doesn't make them less relevant or exciting to ride. I'm just happy to see some of the local classics return, like Fitchburg, Mayor's Cup.
    here. here.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moyene Corniche View Post
    I was really just pointing out the difference in 5 to 3 days of racing...
    from stage races that i've attended the past few years (OR, CA, AR, AZ, UT, CO, NM) it seems that many promoters believe the more days the lower the attendance. it's one thing if the race carries the prestige of something like the gila, but even races like cascade favor stacking 2 races on a day (in general).

    5-day races are cool -- and i agree that one can fake their way, a bit, through a 3-stage stage race (esp if TT, crit, RR) -- but they are exceedingly rare for amateurs.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by globecanvas View Post
    tetonrider (or anyone else), my teammate is racing KSR and looking for somebody to split accommodations. Send me a message if you're interested.
    hey...sorry, i was out of touch for a bit and not really checking in here between some vacation and a little bike racing.

    my circumstances changed a bit because i got the opportunity to go race in belgium later this summer (no slight on KSR...really want to do this race but the belgium thing was hard to pass up). got some news today that i need some surgery from a crash this weekend, so i have to reassess errything...

  9. #34
    Senior Member Moyene Corniche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetonrider View Post
    from stage races that i've attended the past few years (OR, CA, AR, AZ, UT, CO, NM) it seems that many promoters believe the more days the lower the attendance. it's one thing if the race carries the prestige of something like the gila, but even races like cascade favor stacking 2 races on a day (in general).

    5-day races are cool -- and i agree that one can fake their way, a bit, through a 3-stage stage race (esp if TT, crit, RR) -- but they are exceedingly rare for amateurs.
    Ironically I have been on both ends of the spectrum, as a rider /racer and as a promoter...
    This is strictly my own view, but I always believed KSR was special because it was about climbing, the TT was an uphill grind to the base lodge. Which negated the Aero factor and was really about how well your preparation was designed to the requirements of the race...
    We have always had plenty of flat TT's and having a flat TT at KSR is rather anticlimactic... The downtown Rutland Crit as well as the Sunrise race gave you a chance to make up some gains on a flatter terrain .... Then again if dropped on Sunrise, you wouldn't catch back on..

    As a rider, I detest 2 stage days but as a promoter I had absolutely no choice but to combine 2 stages in One day. But nevertheless, races must build a following over time, a difficult thing to successfully accomplish since sponsors and venue hosts always want to see immediate profitable returns.... Still it is America and trying to explain cycling to a small town bureaucracy is always a challenge....
    Ah.... Voila les Cannon ... !!

  10. #35
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    i agree with you that the climbing is what sets the race apart from others. i like the 2xRR + 1xTT format.

    GMSR, held on labor day, has a TT where TT bikes are not permitted. i have to admit that KSR would be just that much easier for me to do if i only had to bring one bike. i'm not afraid of a flat TT at all...in fact i love racing my TT bike...but as someone who would have to fly in the 1-bike thing is appealing.

    for that, i actual prefer an uphill TT where a road bike makes sense (and people have choice in the matter) rather than restricting things like what is done at GMSR.

  11. #36
    Senior Member Moyene Corniche's Avatar
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    That is how KSR was when it was a 5 day SR back in the late 90's...
    Ah.... Voila les Cannon ... !!

  12. #37
    fair weather cyclist pjcampbell's Avatar
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    Too bad GMSR used to have a mass start hill climb TT also. That was one of my favorite parts.

  13. #38
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    So did Fitchburg.

  14. #39
    Arrogant Roadie Punk save10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetonrider View Post
    i got the opportunity to go race in belgium later this summer
    we expect race reports

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjcampbell View Post
    Too bad GMSR used to have a mass start hill climb TT also. That was one of my favorite parts.
    i could do with or without the mass start aspect, but even an uphill ITT would preserve the intent and make it obvious for people to choose road vs tt bikes.

    I suspect the number of people flying in for the race is small, but if one is flying in doing so with 2 hikes is notably more of a barrier, and if one is hoping to be in GC contention one basically has to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by save10 View Post
    we expect race reports
    I'm on dilaudid at the moment. I can give THAT report. getting back into race shape is my next challenge...having to build above where I was before in order to race respectably there is an unknown at this moment.

    Side note: James legros is an avid skier and makes his home in my little town. I see him a bunch in the winter. He was in drugstore cowboy (for the older folks) and played a role in girls (for the younger amongst us). For those in between he was in singles. Very low key guy.

  16. #41
    gmt Grumpy McTrumpy's Avatar
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    The GMSR TT is solidly uphill for the first half of it.

  17. #42
    . botto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    So did Fitchburg.
    when? the times that i did fitchburg, there was an out and back TT/prologue.

  18. #43
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    The last few iterations as a stage race. The start was in Westminster and you would race up Wachusett.

  19. #44
    . botto's Avatar
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    ah.

  20. #45
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    It's back now as a three crit omnium for teams in certain fields.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy View Post
    The GMSR TT is solidly uphill for the first half of it.
    I feel like when I scoped the profile a TT bike would make sense for me at gmsr at my power-to-weight. While I prefer options, as I said above having to fly with only one bike is a bit more of a draw for me.

    Having to to travel with a tt bike is not the reason why I won't make it to ksr this year.

    I like the the odds for better weather for gmsr, but that weekend is a no-go with nationals.

  22. #47
    Senior Member globecanvas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetonrider View Post
    I feel like when I scoped the profile a TT bike would make sense for me at gmsr at my power-to-weight.
    FWIW the GMSR race flier for last year says no TT bikes. I don't know if the rules or the course change from year to year.

    http://www.gmsr.info/pdfs/flyer.pdf


    I'm now looking at GMSR because Catskills was un-stage-raced.
    Ninny

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by globecanvas View Post
    FWIW the GMSR race flier for last year says no TT bikes. I don't know if the rules or the course change from year to year.

    http://www.gmsr.info/pdfs/flyer.pdf


    I'm now looking at GMSR because Catskills was un-stage-raced.
    Sorry...I think I caused some confusion. Gmsr forbids TT bikes, which is why I was saying from a travel perspective for a flyer it is easier. (I'm guessing that is a very small percentage of the amateurs.)

    i was saying in response to gmt's comment about the profile that a tt bike would probably be faster on that course....for me. However, I haven't gone back and looked again. I don't think it was a pure hill climb where weight would trump aero; the decision would be a bit more complex.

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