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-   -   Help make racing better. (http://www.bikeforums.net/33-road-bike-racing/942434-help-make-racing-better.html)

YMCA 04-10-14 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EventServices (Post 16659602)
- We do something that seems stupidly simple, but it's not: pass a water bottle back and forth in a rotating pace line.

.

Had never heard this one before. Thnx.
Read your book, but don't remember that one. Book long gone now of course. Who knows in which hands.

EventServices 04-10-14 04:02 PM

I think the perceived threat is what prevents people from racing as much as the real threat.
But there's also a fear of being humiliated: dropped. Left behind. Like I've said elsewhere, you can't get so blatantly dropped out of the game in other sports like you can in road racing.

The sport is hard. There's a selection before the race even begins. Heck, even before registration.

EventServices 04-10-14 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YMCA (Post 16659911)
Had never heard this one before. Thnx.
Read your book, but don't remember that one. Book long gone now of course. Who knows in which hands.

Um, the idea is that everyone buys their own copy.

Argh.

YMCA 04-10-14 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EventServices (Post 16659949)
Um, the idea is that everyone buys their own copy.

Argh.

well I paid if that helps
and got others to as well
you know how books travel
my father is an author too, he's just happy if ppl read his stories

ovoleg 04-10-14 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ygduf (Post 16657773)
Want to make it safer? Mandate reporting of crashes to USAC and build a database and see where people are running safer races or unsafe races and figure out WHY those are safer. Maybe it's clinics. Maybe it's "else."

I would like this implemented!! WAY MORE USEFUL!

shovelhd 04-10-14 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ovoleg (Post 16660023)
I would like this implemented!! WAY MORE USEFUL!

How would it be more useful? How would you differentiate year to year when course conditions change? How would you determine that a crash in the pro race was unavoidable and a crash in the Cat5 race was avoidable? It would gather a bunch of data and provide fodder for the academics but I don't see what i would do to help improve the racing quality of beginning racers.

Someone asked if it was safer back in the day. I don't know, there were plenty of crashes back then. The difference that I see now is back then the officials knew you. You did not get upgraded on points, you got upgraded because the LA officials knew who you were. They actually talked to other racers and got their opinion of you before they upgraded you. You would not get upgraded if the only way you won was to ride off the front of the field. You had to win in sprints, and you had to win in breaks. When I returned to racing, USAC had lost my original 5 digit license number and all records associated with it. To them I was a nobody (and to most of you as well haha). I came back as a Cat5 because I had no choice, but USAC told me to submit an upgrade request immediately to the category I wanted to return to. The LA official responded the next day, with a personal greeting, asking me why I wanted to return as a Cat3 when she knew me as a Cat2 back then. The point being, she knew me. She would have made me a Cat2 right then and there, but I chose to earn it back with points.

ips0803 04-10-14 06:59 PM

you already have lead referee/official reports post-race. Not sure what actually happens to them...

Alaska Mike 04-11-14 09:57 PM

I don't race USAC (non-sanctioned league), so I don't have a horse in this race, but...
I would waive the 1 day license fee if you attend a training course, and discount the race fee for those on an annual license that haven't already taken the course. USAC can reimburse the race promoter for the lost income, because with training it's more likely you'll have a greater number of return customers. Hook them any way you can, and financial incentive to take a training course is a powerful motivator.

The training doesn't have to be cosmic to be effective. Basic stuff like cornering in a group and general pace-line guidelines can go a long way. There's going to be crashes, no matter what you do. People do stupid stuff when they're gassed. All you can do is mitigate that somewhat by opening their eyes to what many of us take for granted as common knowledge.

rbart4506 04-12-14 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EventServices (Post 16659947)
I think the perceived threat is what prevents people from racing as much as the real threat.
But there's also a fear of being humiliated: dropped. Left behind. Like I've said elsewhere, you can't get so blatantly dropped out of the game in other sports like you can in road racing.

The sport is hard. There's a selection before the race even begins. Heck, even before registration.

You are so right on that one.

I've been dropped so many times I've lost count. It is not a nice feeling and really makes it difficult to keep coming back out, but I have. I'm sure lots of new racers experience this for the first time and think WTH, but there isn't much can do about except trainer harder and smarter, plus learn to race, so it doesn't happen.

Another race season is almost upon me, let's see if I heed my own advice :)

gsteinb 04-12-14 05:44 AM

it's difficult for me to wrap my head around how anyone could view this as a bad idea. standard stuff on the track.

shovelhd 04-12-14 05:50 AM

Some people just like to argue.

Going OTB in cross is celebrated. You might get some encouragement in road.

gsteinb 04-12-14 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ygduf (Post 16657683)
citation needed.

someone dig up the study on increased crash rate that prompted this whole thing and convince me it isn't just generation gap and "In my day..."

Which is weird, because back in that day they still didn't have mandatory clinics.

Is it not the case that people are complaining about decreased attendance and shrinking profit margin? IMO increasing the barrier to entry will just decrease participation.

IF, and I mean IF!, this were to somehow become gospel, they should make it so that every club/team has to host a race AND a clinic.

But they shouldn't do that because this is questionable idea. There is already cat 5 to segregate new people and force them to get a minimum of experience.


actually...every team is obligated to host a race. not sure how closely it's enforced, but it's a requirement to be a team.

revchuck 04-12-14 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsteinb (Post 16664014)
it's difficult for me to wrap my head around how anyone could view this as a bad idea. standard stuff on the track.

Funny...I'm thinking about giving track a try, and emailed the honcho at the Baton Rouge velodrome. Turns out they don't have an "Intro to Track Cycling" course. Houston's a few miles farther, might try there first.

gsteinb 04-12-14 06:45 AM

no doubt. as soon as anyone says one thing a counter example is bound to arise.

revchuck 04-12-14 06:54 AM

Looks like Houston is a bit better organized.

mollusk 04-12-14 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shovelhd (Post 16657052)
The fear of crashing is already a significant barrier to entry to this sport.

My experience is that racing is much safer than riding in big "charity" rides. The start of those scare the liver out of me.

ovoleg 04-12-14 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mollusk (Post 16665498)
My experience is that racing is much safer than riding in big "charity" rides. The start of those scare the liver out of me.

lets be serious now...

mollusk 04-12-14 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ovoleg (Post 16665516)
lets be serious now...

I am.

furiousferret 04-12-14 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ovoleg (Post 16665516)
lets be serious now...

He's right, 80% of the riders have never ridden in a pack before but insist on jumping in your rotating paceline.

ovoleg 04-12-14 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mollusk (Post 16665528)
I am.

Quote:

Originally Posted by furiousferret (Post 16665536)
He's right, 80% of the riders have never ridden in a pack before but insist on jumping in your rotating paceline.

you guys join rotating pacelines with Fred's on a charity ride? How slow are you guys? I can ride away from them doing 200W on the flats...

mollusk 04-12-14 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ovoleg (Post 16665555)
you guys join rotating pacelines with Fred's on a charity ride?

Never

That is one reason why I am an old cyclist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ovoleg (Post 16665555)
How slow are you guys? I can ride away from them doing 200W on the flats...

200W will not take you off the front of a big charity ride. At least the ones I have been on. Can you cover 100 miles solo in a little over 4 hours at 200W? If so you must be really tiny.

ovoleg 04-12-14 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mollusk (Post 16665574)
Never

That is one reason why I am an old cyclist.
200W will not take you off the front of a big charity ride. At least the ones I have been on. Can you cover 100 miles solo in a little over 4 hours at 200W? If so you must be really tiny.

I guess I haven't done the charity rides you guys are talking about cause the ones around here are filled with super slow people riding 14mph for 7 hours ride time and 14 hours total time to complete a century. I've never felt unsafe either because the few times I've done them, I did it with a handful of people that I actually knew and we would hammer each other to death and stay away from all the Fred's.

It's pretty much impossible for me to ride away from the field and start soloing or get away with 2-3 people unless everyone in the field is sleeping. Most races I'm riding 1-5 wide with 125 people who may or may not know how to handle a bike that are strong.

Bike racing is much much much more dangerous from my experience to charity rides. Again I don't know any charity ride that has Fred's who cant ride a bike that can hold 20 mph over a relatively hilly 100 mile course.

spectastic 04-12-14 08:58 PM

most people in the charity rides I've been in are the same people from my community with whom I ride regularly. And we don't really paceline, we just ride.

UmneyDurak 04-13-14 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ovoleg (Post 16665613)
I guess I haven't done the charity rides you guys are talking about cause the ones around here are filled with super slow people riding 14mph for 7 hours ride time and 14 hours total time to complete a century. I've never felt unsafe either because the few times I've done them, I did it with a handful of people that I actually knew and we would hammer each other to death and stay away from all the Fred's.

It's pretty much impossible for me to ride away from the field and start soloing or get away with 2-3 people unless everyone in the field is sleeping. Most races I'm riding 1-5 wide with 125 people who may or may not know how to handle a bike that are strong.

Bike racing is much much much more dangerous from my experience to charity rides. Again I don't know any charity ride that has Fred's who cant ride a bike that can hold 20 mph over a relatively hilly 100 mile course.

Which races are you doing in SoCal that had 125 people regularly? When I was there getting 50+ was unusual.

needmoreair 04-13-14 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UmneyDurak (Post 16665914)
Which races are you doing in SoCal that had 125 people regularly? When I was there getting 50+ was unusual.

These are probably the fields that average 28 mph with the last couple of miles at 35+ and a final sprint of 40+. Of course, that's just the Cat 4s. :p


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