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-   -   "Sorry" doesn't replace my bike... (http://www.bikeforums.net/33-road-bike-racing/942673-sorry-doesnt-replace-my-bike.html)

Inquisitor. 04-10-14 11:37 PM

"Sorry" doesn't replace my bike...
 
I expected to hit the pavement eventually racing bicycles, but it's especially frustrating when it happens on a wide open road on a closed course. We were entering a right turn, and the rider passing on my left carelessly turned into me, while I matched the line of the rider to my right. He apologized afterwards, but my bike is totaled, and I have nothing to ride in the State Criterium Championship this weekend. Other riders were telling me that he was riding sketchy in most of the corners. Oh well, I had 2 laps to go, and felt like the strongest rider in the field. At least my teammates got 1st and 2nd, but it would have been nice to sweep the podium, and keep my top spot in the local racing series.


furiousferret 04-10-14 11:56 PM

That was pretty boneheaded on his part. The other side was clear and there was no reason to cut you off like that. On the positive side, it sounds like you are okay.

mike868y 04-11-14 05:04 AM

race what you can replace.

echappist 04-11-14 05:16 AM

Sorry to hear about the crash.

not to beat a dead horse, this is exactly why a clinic would be useful. The other rider has his elbows cocked straight and was sitting high.

though out of curiosity, do you recall how the contact was made? You seem to be in the drops at this point, and he seemed to have veered into your hip?

gsteinb 04-11-14 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike868y (Post 16661209)
race what you can replace.

I didn't read anything that indicated he couldn't replace it. Just that time is pretty limited before the weekend which starts, uh, tomorrow. So, honestly, stfu already.

I can replace my stuff. It genuinely doesn't mean I should be happy, or I can't complain about it on a message board because someone causes a bonehead crash.

Your shtick is getting old. You're not one of the wise old men here.

gsteinb 04-11-14 05:53 AM

That said I have no idea what happens in that video.

rkwaki 04-11-14 06:02 AM

I'd be pissed. The financial side is one thing but the time and inconvenience of building a new frameset then dialing in fit sucks.

I have a buddy who was taken out three times in three weeks in 2011 and binned three SL4 framesets. Was not a happy camper.

shovelhd 04-11-14 06:07 AM

It seems like the guy on the left dive bombed the right hander while the OP was setting up behind the rider in front of him. However I can't see that doing much except bumping the OP's hip. Did your bars hook? What happened that lead to your losing your balance? Were you tense? Just too tough to tell even with two cameras.

botto 04-11-14 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsteinb (Post 16661279)
That said I have no idea what happens in that video.

you either?

cannondale125 04-11-14 06:36 AM

Looks like you fell over and it stopped? I guess I can't see how your bike is totaled.

shovelhd 04-11-14 06:40 AM

Maybe your front wheel was overlapping the left side of the rear wheel in front of you and the bump or push swung your front wheel hard enough to crash?

it sucks when your frame gets wrecked in a race but you know what sucks more? When it gets wrecked by a careless airline baggage handler.

carpediemracing 04-11-14 06:57 AM

I can't see how that type of contact would result in a crash on the camera bike's part unless the bars got hooked. If it was just contact then if anyone I'd expect the outside rider to fall (who seemed to hit with the hand/bars). If it were hooked bars then both riders would crash, at least if I was one of them I'd be hitting the deck.

Also how was the bike totaled? Was the frame broken? If it were just the wheel/s or levers or something then I'd consider it not totaled. Frame would be a pain, levers would be the next level of pain since there's so much related to it (cables and such). Cranks Everything else would be pretty straightforward to replace (derailleur, hanger, etc). The bike landed on the non-drive side, it doesn't appear that anyone fell on top, so I don't see how the bike would get totaled. I'm not saying it didn't get totaled, I'm just wondering how it got totaled.

To be fair the guy to the outside didn't need to be so close, but based on what was going on it seemed like he was only marginally off a line that would have avoided all the drama.

EventServices 04-11-14 07:22 AM

Initially, I was going to say, "That's bike racing!" But from what I see on that clip, it looks like you weren't taking the same line as everyone else. You said you were matching the line of the black and white guy (on your right). With the turn coming up, you should have shot past him so that you have a better line in the turn. Once your hips are past his handlebars, you can move over on him while still giving him enough room to get through the turn safely. I mean, don't chop him into the curb. (Though I know a lot of guys who would do that.)

I'm watching #901 aim for the apex. That's a predictable move on his part.

I'm also watching your line in relationship to the seam in the pavement. You can see that you're allowing too much room for the b&w guy.

It looks like you were too generous.

What am I not seeing on the video?

HOWSER 04-11-14 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cannondale125 (Post 16661353)
Looks like you fell over and it stopped? I guess I can't see how your bike is totaled.

Same here. What's wrong with the bike?

Inquisitor. 04-11-14 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shovelhd (Post 16661303)
It seems like the guy on the left dive bombed the right hander while the OP was setting up behind the rider in front of him. However I can't see that doing much except bumping the OP's hip. Did your bars hook? What happened that lead to your losing your balance? Were you tense? Just too tough to tell even with two cameras.

I had my elbows out, but he was slightly ahead of me and hit my handlebars with his forearm. He was fixated on following the wheel of the rider who passed in front of me and completely lacked situational awareness when he turned into me. I was one of the front 5 riders virtually the entire race, and there wasn't much I could do to be positioned better. There was about 3 miles to the finish, and it wasn't as if he had to fight for position in the final corner. He had plenty of room to take a safe line, but didn't purely out of negligence.

My biggest frustration is that the crash was absolutely needless. I was riding a 10 year old bike and planning on upgrading it, but in the meantime I have nothing to race and train on for at least a week, and it'll take longer than that for the road rash to clear up. At least I didn't break any bones. I simply hope that this guy learned from his error, and rides safer in the future.

shovelhd 04-11-14 07:49 AM

You could have benefitted from some bumping drills. If your elbows were out, were your arms tense? If so, that's why you went down. Bumping is part of racing.

echappist 04-11-14 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shovelhd (Post 16661543)
You could have benefitted from some bumping drills. If your elbows were out, were your arms tense? If so, that's why you went down. Bumping is part of racing.

+1

I recall two years ago i was in a crit. It was my third year of racing, and i've gotten rather good at pack riding. Something similar happened as another rider and i bumped elbows through a turn, and nothing happened, at all.

merlinextraligh 04-11-14 07:54 AM

Some additional input from the OP would be helpful. Its hard to see why this resulted in a crash or a totaled bike.

cannondale125 04-11-14 08:05 AM

As I watch the video a few more times, the other rider is past him when it looks like you clip his back wheel with your front and that's why you went down. Just what I see in video.

waterrockets 04-11-14 08:26 AM

What I'm seeing is bump drills are very necessary. Rough ones where there is a speed differential. Your elbows should be firm but bouncy along the bend, and completely supple laterally, like your elbow should be able to swing a bit, like a pendulum, while maintaining the bend. My mentor from my first couple years of riding used to knock my elbows around just randomly on rides. It's ok if your bars move with a bump, but you need to be supple enough that it's dampened and brought back smoothly.

I think that what happened in the video is that this guy bumped bars to bars or bars to elbow. The resulting countersteer stood inquisitor up and sent him possibly across the other guy's wheel, but more likely just into a high-side crash out of the corner from the inertia of being stood up with the centrifugal force of the corner helping. The other guy got the opposite countersteer effect, and it would have just tightened his turn up. Since this corner wasn't at the limit, there was traction available to turn tighter after the bump.

Most crashes seem like someone else's fault, and that's often true, but you can't get hung up on it. You wouldn't have crashed if you didn't sign up to race. The responsibility starts there. You could have been tightly drafting a rider, which would protect you a bit more. You could be more prepared for such expected contact. I went 19 years since my last crash, then went down last season when a guy sprawled right in front of me and I had nowhere to go -- I still blame myself 100% for not having the fitness or tactics to be up at the front of the race. My crash was my fault.

Inquisitor. 04-11-14 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carpediemracing (Post 16661388)
I can't see how that type of contact would result in a crash on the camera bike's part unless the bars got hooked. If it was just contact then if anyone I'd expect the outside rider to fall (who seemed to hit with the hand/bars). If it were hooked bars then both riders would crash, at least if I was one of them I'd be hitting the deck.

Also how was the bike totaled? Was the frame broken? If it were just the wheel/s or levers or something then I'd consider it not totaled. Frame would be a pain, levers would be the next level of pain since there's so much related to it (cables and such). Cranks Everything else would be pretty straightforward to replace (derailleur, hanger, etc). The bike landed on the non-drive side, it doesn't appear that anyone fell on top, so I don't see how the bike would get totaled. I'm not saying it didn't get totaled, I'm just wondering how it got totaled.

To be fair the guy to the outside didn't need to be so close, but based on what was going on it seemed like he was only marginally off a line that would have avoided all the drama.

The front camera swung forward from the sudden deceleration, but didn't impact anything. I'll put the crank, chainrings, and power meter on a new bike, but the components are old DA 7800, and not really worth moving to a new bike. I'm not sure about the wheels, but at least I bought the Mavic insurance for them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOWSER (Post 16661464)
Same here. What's wrong with the bike?


I got run over and the frame is trashed.


Quote:

Originally Posted by shovelhd (Post 16661543)
You could have benefitted from some bumping drills. If your elbows were out, were your arms tense? If so, that's why you went down. Bumping is part of racing.


I've actually become very comfortable bumping and making contact, however, he hit my handlebars with enough force that I immediately went down.


Quote:

Originally Posted by cannondale125 (Post 16661584)
As I watch the video a few more times, the other rider is past him when it looks like you clip his back wheel with your front and that's why you went down. Just what I see in video.


Although the camera makes it appear that I clipped a rider's back wheel, there was at least 6-8 inches of clearance.

gsteinb 04-11-14 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waterrockets (Post 16661654)
What I'm seeing is bump drills are very necessary. Rough ones where there is a speed differential. Your elbows should be firm but bouncy along the bend, and completely supple laterally, like your elbow should be able to swing a bit, like a pendulum, while maintaining the bend. My mentor from my first couple years of riding used to knock my elbows around just randomly on rides. It's ok if your bars move with a bump, but you need to be supple enough that it's dampened and brought back smoothly.

I think that what happened in the video is that this guy bumped bars to bars or bars to elbow. The resulting countersteer stood inquisitor up and sent him possibly across the other guy's wheel, but more likely just into a high-side crash out of the corner from the inertia of being stood up with the centrifugal force of the corner helping. The other guy got the opposite countersteer effect, and it would have just tightened his turn up. Since this corner wasn't at the limit, there was traction available to turn tighter after the bump.

Most crashes seem like someone else's fault, and that's often true, but you can't get hung up on it. You wouldn't have crashed if you didn't sign up to race. The responsibility starts there. You could have been tightly drafting a rider, which would protect you a bit more. You could be more prepared for such expected contact. I went 19 years since my last crash, then went down last season when a guy sprawled right in front of me and I had nowhere to go -- I still blame myself 100% for not having the fitness or tactics to be up at the front of the race. My crash was my fault.

all my crashes are belong to you

shovelhd 04-11-14 08:33 AM

What is trashed about the frame? 7800 is better than what a lot of racers have. If it works, use it.

EventServices 04-11-14 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inquisitor. (Post 16661525)
My biggest frustration is that the crash was absolutely needless. I was riding a 10 year old bike and planning on upgrading it, but in the meantime I have nothing to race and train on for at least a week, and it'll take longer than that for the road rash to clear up. At least I didn't break any bones. I simply hope that this guy learned from his error, and rides safer in the future.

Not to make light of it, but A. ALL crashes are needless. B1. this is America. No one owns a 10-year-old bike anymore. B2. You can get anything shipped overnight. C. Use Bag Balm on that road rash. And D. That guy is probably blaming you for the crash, so I doubt he learned from his error.


Quote:

Originally Posted by waterrockets (Post 16661654)
What I'm seeing is bump drills are very necessary.

+1000
(see other thread)

waterrockets 04-11-14 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsteinb (Post 16661680)
all my crashes are belong to you

you have no chance to survive. make your time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shovelhd (Post 16661693)
What is trashed about the frame? 7800 is better than what a lot of racers have. If it works, use it.

I race 7800 as my best group


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