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  1. #251
    So it is LAJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetonrider View Post
    ovo (& others)--you asked me for advice privately and i responded, but i wanted to add a little update as i had a bit of a breakthrough.

    in addition to the normal issues noted above WRT max power, i've been having a bit of trouble with cornering and descending. my leg and hip just don't move quite the way they used to. i'm a big believer in increasing ROM and breaking up scar tissue. i've been open to alternative treatments (mentioned 'cupping' before....as with acupuncture i don't really believe in all of the miracle stuff attributed to it, but it can be useful for breaking up some scar tissue along the same lines as massage), as well as straight-up massage. for some injuries it, along with acupuncture, seems to have helped; it hasn't for others. (for the acupuncture, my main thing with it is restoring some neuromuscular firing patterns...'waking up' some stuff that is not firing right due to injury.) it's also super cheap stuff for me ($15/hour), but for someone who is open-minded and/or willing to try anything to see if it works for them, it's worth exploring.

    but back to the point: i had an absolutely brutal massage yesterday which seemed to finally break up some scar tissue. this was like full body weight of the masseuse/knees on legs/glutes. i was able to move today with more fluidity in the hips and legs. the lateness in my pedal stroke seemed a bit better (helps with max power), but the main thing i noticed is i'd lost some of the robot-like stiffness when i tried to do things like lean the bike and/or shift my hips. i could make more subtle movements instead of doing more stepped motions.

    if you haven't already tried it, working with a good masseuse can be money well-spent and i think it may have some influence on returning to more fluid motion and, therefore, max power. ($75 for 1.5-2 hours)
    Very nice. I hope it continues.

    Again, thanks for all you've shared. I will certainly look at that once I actually see how I behave on the bike.
    Quote Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
    Not to be argumentative

  2. #252
    Ninny globecanvas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattm View Post
    what's avn again? is it only a concern for hip surgery?

    AVN is what turned Bo Jackson back into a regular human.

  3. #253
    So it is LAJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by globecanvas View Post
    AVN is what turned Bo Jackson back into a regular human.
    Floyd Landis suffered from it, as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
    Not to be argumentative

  4. #254
    Senior Member rankin116's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by globecanvas View Post
    AVN is what turned Bo Jackson back into a regular human.
    I wouldn't call him a regular human just yet. He can probably still destroy the world with one good leg.

  5. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by rankin116 View Post
    I wouldn't call him a regular human just yet. He can probably still destroy the world with one good leg.
    did you happen to see the espn 30-for-30 show on bo? incredible. so much that i never knew/didn't remember about him. what an incredible athlete.

  6. #256
    Powered by Borscht ovoleg's Avatar
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    Started going to the gym 2 weeks ago and have seen quite a bit of improvement. Stopped riding for the first week and got into it again toward the tailend of the 2nd week(low mileage).

    First day at the gym:
    Leg Extension - Good Leg - 85 lbs x 10 reps x 3 sets
    Leg Extension - Bad Leg - 10 lbs x 7 reps x 3 sets

    Leg Press - Good Leg - 90 lbs x 8 reps x 3 sets
    Leg Press - Bad Leg - 20 lbs x 6 reps x 2 sets

    Since then I've improved quite a bit. The bad leg, leg extensions I'm at around 40 lbs 10 reps, mostly 100% clean. The leg press I'm up to 50-60 lbs, clean.

    This is my routine, it switches up somewhat daily, but not by much:

    Single leg extensions - Warmup easy, 15 reps @ 15 lbs. Then work sets: 35 lb x 10 reps x 3 sets.
    Single leg presses - Warmup easy, 15 reps @ 20 lbs. Then work sets: 50 lbs x 10 reps x 3 sets.
    Single leg glute extension - 40 lb x 10 reps x 3 sets.
    Inner thigh and adductor extension - 20 lb x 10 reps x 3 sets.

    Always hit the TFL stretch machine, usually 3 sets of stretches.
    Always finish off the gym session with quad stretches and the foam roller.

    Sometimes I do pyramid intervals(start low, build up then build down). Sometimes I do reps to failure or when the form starts to go to crap. Pretty much mixing things up.

    I went for a bike ride on Sunday and did 1 hour where I had spurts of 5-10mins of 200W without any pain. No pain standing or anything like that. The shorts kind of rubbed a bit and I dont think my body is all too used to sitting for so long on the saddle so I got some discomfort but nothing substantial.

    I gained too much weight, but I need to get the strength back so I can ride w/o pain. I'm mixing in about 30mins-1hr of Z1/Z2 before heading over to the gym.
    -Cat-3-o-meter: TBD :/

  7. #257
    Powered by Borscht ovoleg's Avatar
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    Most of my issue over the past 1.5 months has been TFL, IT Band, and Quad pain. I walk 100% fine, but going up the stairs has been sucky and doing any kind of squat has been hard.
    -Cat-3-o-meter: TBD :/

  8. #258
    Senior Member furiousferret's Avatar
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    I'm about a year removed from my ankle surgery and had similar imbalances. It took me about 5 months to get back in decent form. I actually checked this week and both legs are the same dimensions now (one quad was 2" smaller).

    Put you head down, do work, avoid the drama, and think about next year.

  9. #259
    So it is LAJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ovoleg View Post
    Most of my issue over the past 1.5 months has been TFL, IT Band, and Quad pain. I walk 100% fine, but going up the stairs has been sucky and doing any kind of squat has been hard.
    My issue is also quad pain. When i stand to pedal, I can make it go away. I am tempted to get my ass kicked by some masseuse as tetonrider suggested. If I sit at the desk too long, then try to walk, my knee, and quad just plain hurt, till I walk it out. Quad is about halfway between the hip and knee, slightly closer to the knee. I still can't walk as I like, but I'm getting better. Dog walks are a help there. I'm only 10 weeks out, and I know it isn't instant, but I figured I would be able to walk OK.

    I did pop off a ride on Saturday for 2.5 hours and 5 hours on Sunday. It was glorious, other than the damn butt pain from being on the bike that long.

    I definitely feel better on the bike than on my two feet.
    Quote Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
    Not to be argumentative

  10. #260
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    You're doing great!

  11. #261
    Powered by Borscht ovoleg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
    My issue is also quad pain. When i stand to pedal, I can make it go away. I am tempted to get my ass kicked by some masseuse as tetonrider suggested. If I sit at the desk too long, then try to walk, my knee, and quad just plain hurt, till I walk it out. Quad is about halfway between the hip and knee, slightly closer to the knee. I still can't walk as I like, but I'm getting better. Dog walks are a help there. I'm only 10 weeks out, and I know it isn't instant, but I figured I would be able to walk OK.

    I did pop off a ride on Saturday for 2.5 hours and 5 hours on Sunday. It was glorious, other than the damn butt pain from being on the bike that long.

    I definitely feel better on the bike than on my two feet.
    I think we got the exact same pain, except mine doesnt happen that much anymore. Def feels like its halfway between knee and hip when it does happen(or used to, crossing fingers). I get the exact same issue of sitting at the desk too long, then I have to walk it off to get it to go away haha. Damn it was like you explained my day!

    As Tenton would say, everyone is different, so do what works for you.

    Massage didn't help me at all, I got them regularly at the PT office. I think part of the issue is that you need to improve circulation without irritating the broken muscles. I think the TFL stretch, Quad stretch and foam roller are doing quite a bit of magic. I wish I could isolate the healing techniques I'm trying to pinpoint exactly what is helping, but since I'm trying a bunch of things, I honestly don't know...

    Quote Originally Posted by furiousferret View Post
    I'm about a year removed from my ankle surgery and had similar imbalances. It took me about 5 months to get back in decent form. I actually checked this week and both legs are the same dimensions now (one quad was 2" smaller).

    Put you head down, do work, avoid the drama, and think about next year.
    I am thinking a lot more short term than that. I am setting short term goals. My main goal is to ride without pain, if I can get over that, I am gonna be in a good place in my mind and body. After I get over that hurdle, I'll start to focus on doing base mileage and getting the engine going again. After that Ill get back down to 170 lbs(now at 192).

    I did a month of riding with a mix of Z1-Z4 and it didn't that much, it felt like I stopped improving after 2 weeks. This gym strengthening and isolation work is doing something!

    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    You're doing great!
    Thanks man appreciate it. Took your advice in the previous post and going to focus on recovery and leave the complications up to life and fate. The mental aspect is the hardest thing for me right now.
    -Cat-3-o-meter: TBD :/

  12. #262
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    quad pain.....sometimes look to the hamstring (for weakness).

    i was able to do some leg raises while laying on my side/abduction pain-free for the first time in 12 or 14 weeks. the weird thing was it was not so much lack of strength in those muscles as it was the opposite muscles fighting the motion, and i had to learn to relax that. when recovering from injuries our bodies can learn SO many protective patterns, many of which are not immediately obvious.

  13. #263
    Powered by Borscht ovoleg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetonrider View Post
    quad pain.....sometimes look to the hamstring (for weakness).

    i was able to do some leg raises while laying on my side/abduction pain-free for the first time in 12 or 14 weeks. the weird thing was it was not so much lack of strength in those muscles as it was the opposite muscles fighting the motion, and i had to learn to relax that. when recovering from injuries our bodies can learn SO many protective patterns, many of which are not immediately obvious.
    Thanks teton, I looked into the hamstring but my hamstring is really strong. When I did the leg curl thing, it was just as strong as the good leg.

    The lying leg curl which works the hamstring + glute, both legs are of equal strength. My biggest fail right now is leg extension(all quad) and leg press(glute, ham, quad).

    I think there is some weakness in that inner adductor/thigh area, it feels a tad weak.
    -Cat-3-o-meter: TBD :/

  14. #264
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ovoleg View Post
    Thanks man appreciate it. Took your advice in the previous post and going to focus on recovery and leave the complications up to life and fate. The mental aspect is the hardest thing for me right now.
    It always is. It's like part of your life was taken away. Most of the time it's temporary, though.

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