globecanvas

Well, he would have had to beg for change, I guess. It wasn't like he just forgot to go to the ATM, it was a day-before-payday thing and the guy lives hand to mouth.

But whatever, guys who live in their car are not the target audience for a $95 race with no payout.

Ygduf

yeah, I'm sure it matters to some. I'm just joking around and saying that anything I get back from a race is unexpected windfall.

gsteinb

I want to race for medals and have entry fees be half what they are. And I go home with money most weekends.

furiousferret

It's an amateur race. I'd rather more money go the guys that do it for a living.

ShutUpLegs

The money is nice, but not necessary. Problem I have is then the continued increase in race fees while also cutting back. I understand sometimes things go up from year to year, but then the RD should do what they can to keep costs and cut prize money, not raise and cut.

mike868y

if the value proposition doesn't work for you, don't do the race. there are plenty of other races. if you voluntarily sign up to race you don't really have a leg to stand on to ***** about things you knew before registering. i'm not dieter's biggest fan but half the people who ***** about the reg fee end up paying it anyway.

gsteinb

that's not true. his registration is down wildly over the years, and most of his races get canceled.

YMCA

Entry's won't be cut in half, but ridding cash prizes is a direction I push for, barring a few P12 and ladies events for those few that are chasing the dream

I could go into details, but really it's pretty simple if you think about it logically

shovelhd

There's a causal relationship between the former and the latter. The guy has a risk threshold that he will not exceed, and pulls the plug to avoid further risk. This breeds distrust and reluctance to participate further.

gsteinb

But that just highlights that folks are signing up for his shenanigans

shovelhd

Back on topic, if any of you cross idiots are racing Cycle-Smart this weekend, I am working. Say hi.

shovelhd

Less and less every year.

gsteinb

which is uh what I said.

carpediemracing 

FYI prize money in big races, rule of thumb based on stuff I discussed with a race director for a big race, is 10% of budget. $100k prize list probably means $1,000,000 budget for holding the race.

For Bethel it's more like 20% of budget. It used to be maybe 50% of budget but that was 20 years ago. Completely eliminating prize money would reduce costs 20%. It happens to be only a slight bit more than the loss the race experienced this year. If I didn't give any prize money this year I'd have made some money.

shovelhd

It was a cold and nasty weekend at Cycle Smart. 41 and raining on Saturday, 41 and dry and gale force winds on Sunday. I managed to get yelled at by the USAC chief, the promoter, and a handful of riders. Overall though the crew did a great job in difficult conditions. My last UCI race of the year and probably my last race officiating until the 2015 road season.

mike868y

i skipped csi so i could ride all weekend. then the weather was **** and i didn't touch my bike. should have raced.

globecanvas

My buddy CF said it was a great race. He took 5th in the UCI elite field.

YMCA

What caused their outburst(s)?

If I see an official yell at anyone, or act inappropriately with the paying customers, I shut them down asap; without negativity btw. The NE is so flipping backwards when it comes to bike races. The officials are not in charge, they are there to officiate. This is not 1970 or 1980 or 1990. This is a new era.

And any promoter yelling at anyone, shouldn't be a promoter. Imagine a store manager yelling a customer. Best business practices require diplomacy and cool heads.

shovelhd

I don't race cross. I was a race official. Getting yelled at by the chief is part of the learning process. I had no problem with it whatsoever. These aren't screaming matches, just emphatic commentary . I kept the promoter engaged until I was able to bring him to the chief. That's my role. The issue was an inconsistency in the technical guide having to do with the start of a couple of races. Both sides were correct.

I mention this stuff because now that I am working on the other side, it is a real eye opener how difficult this job really is. It's a lot like mainstream pro sports in that there are many judgement calls to be made all day long and the riders often don't understand the decision or are too hot to listen to an explanation. There is also a fairly wide variation of leniency with officials from all over the country that I have worked with. Each one teaches me something new. None of this stuff is in the manuals or classes. As an official you have to develop your own line of reason. I might realistically get there in 2-4 years. It's a lot harder than I thought it would be.

mike868y

fwiw (and I don't know any of the backstory/wasn't there, etc) there has been considerable "grumbling" on twitter among new england elite riders getting pulled before they think it's necessary in uci cross races this season.

shovelhd

There was plenty of this. In UCI cross, "pulling riders" is called deviation. It is required in Elite/U23 UCI races, and there is very little official leeway. The 80/20 rule is applied. If they don't know what that is, they should read the UCI rulebook. In short, we take the leaders time on lap 1. 80% of that time is the deviation time. We start a second stopwatch each time the leader comes through. Any rider that is expected to pass deviation (usually the last turn before the finish) after the deviation time is pulled from the race. Their race number, race lap and race time are recorded. This information (deviation report) has to be submitted to the UCI with the results.

mike868y

yeah I understand that but some riders have been reporting getting pulled while inside of the 80% limit.

shovelhd

How do they know the leaders time and deviation time while they are riding?

rankin116

Crap, wish I would have checked here before heading out, I was at CSI both days. Would have been nice to say hi. I thought it was a great race, well organized and a fun but hard course.

shovelhd

I worked staging both days. I was the shorter of the two officials, setting the rows. If you were deviated in the Elites, I did that too.