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Old 05-30-14, 03:48 PM   #126
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So, point Gary.
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Old 05-30-14, 03:49 PM   #127
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maybe that's the newest contraction of "oy vey"? then again, i'm just a goy and no mensch
Now you're just talking crazy.

It's not a contraction of anything. It's a friggin' word. I'm dropping French AND Spanish on you guys in the same post. 'Cause that's the faux-Euro pro way, mate (that's some down-under thunder for you, too, 'cause cycling is so international. Lekker, lekker!).
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Old 05-30-14, 03:50 PM   #128
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So, point Gary.
Are you Gary?

And are you giving yourself a point?

For pointing out how I'm using a word, even though you thought it was the wrong word? Or for asserting I'm trying to use a word I'm not?

Yeah, bonus point for you. I can only imagine the division you're playing in...
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Old 05-30-14, 04:04 PM   #129
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Didn't I already say there are lots of reasons to race? I'm pretty sure I did. I'd copy and paste it but surely you can go read it yourself.

But no, there are not "many winners" of a race. There is a winner of a race. If a race is broken up so that there is more than one winner, then that simply means that there are races within that race. But that winner is still the winner of a particular race and does not share that victory with another (unless a team event, which road racing isn't...see how I brought that full-circle? Yeah.).
You went full circle well before your parenthetical phrase.

Semantic tautology is boring. Are you incapable of connotation or nuanced discussion? e.g. I have absolutely seen victors share their wins with their teammates. Both the prizes, the credit, the photos, the glory. You name it, they shared it.
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Old 05-30-14, 04:27 PM   #130
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I rattled and hacked through this thread quickly.

Conclusion; only those that have ridden on cohesive teams should chime in. Which basically takes out almost every lower cat on this board.

And to the guy who thought Cav was the weakest of his squad and was plainly dropped off with 150 meters left. I double dog dare you to sit on those wheels, at those speeds, in those quarters and still have anything left to accelerate even more in the end. Cav can out-climb, out-TT and out-roleur half the peloton, but is paid to sit and wait. "Team" orders. See... there's that damn "team" sport thing again.

Jamie, tactics and teamwork are my bread and butter, but don't give away the secrets. Otherwise everyone will think they too can be in our super secret club of knowledge. And really, they can't. Selflessness be required and weekend warriorism tends to find the opposite.
Well I don't think the thread was about whether teamwork exists, it was about how much recognition they should get. Do you think everyone on the team should get a metal / stripes?

Personally I don't think they should get much more than a thank you and some $$. Champions are unique, and while they may need help to win, the helpers are relatively common and interchangeable.
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Old 05-30-14, 04:33 PM   #131
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I do not believe that team members of amateur national champions should be allowed to have stripes on their sleeves.
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Old 05-30-14, 04:41 PM   #132
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So, err, if we are only really talking about professional cyclists... and this is really a fan recognition thing than anything having to do with the actual racing per se... isn't this really 217 material rather than 33?
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Old 05-30-14, 04:44 PM   #133
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I'm not a pro so I don't give a crap what is on their jersey.
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Old 05-30-14, 04:58 PM   #134
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But no, there are not "many winners" of a race. There is a winner of a race. If a race is broken up so that there is more than one winner, then that simply means that there are races within that race. But that winner is still the winner of a particular race and does not share that victory with another (unless a team event, which road racing isn't...see how I brought that full-circle? Yeah.).
See, this is why Fudgy is saying that you're just spouting tautologies. Yeah, duh - there is one winner of a race. By definition. What's being debated is the merit of that particular definition. It would certainly be possible to score bike races differently. There are actual, factual, internationally contested bike race formats that are scored differently. But you're getting all hung up on the picture in the dictionary, rather than the reasons that that's the picture Webster chose - and if maybe he had other options.

And it's not actually taking the discussion anywhere productive. Maybe you think it's because you're just speaking truth and no one can handle your straight-talking ways, but damn if YMCA didn't just come in here with some strong opinions and a friggin' point to go with them. And lo and behold, no one is telling him he needs to switch to decaf.
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Old 05-30-14, 05:28 PM   #135
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I lament you going back to FLA you SOB
My hope to return for a White Plains/Harlem double is slowly dissipating. Bummed. One day you and I will play in a race and argy bargy will ensue. Promise you dat old man. 50+ next year btw; ooof
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Old 05-30-14, 05:30 PM   #136
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but damn if YMCA didn't just come in here with some strong opinions and a friggin' point to go with them. And lo and behold, no one is telling him he needs to switch to decaf.
thnx grolby; coffee not needed, the truth needs no exclamation points
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Old 05-30-14, 05:38 PM   #137
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I'm out for harlem. I'd rather eat dinner with my family than skinscrape the P12 on a narrowed course.
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Old 05-30-14, 09:37 PM   #138
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My hope to return for a White Plains/Harlem double is slowly dissipating. Bummed. One day you and I will play in a race and argy bargy will ensue. Promise you dat old man. 50+ next year btw; ooof
Then next year you'll be argy-bargyin with me. Bring it on.
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Old 05-31-14, 06:45 AM   #139
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Didn't I already say there are lots of reasons to race? I'm pretty sure I did. I'd copy and paste it but surely you can go read it yourself.

But no, there are not "many winners" of a race. There is a winner of a race. If a race is broken up so that there is more than one winner, then that simply means that there are races within that race. But that winner is still the winner of a particular race and does not share that victory with another (unless a team event, which road racing isn't...see how I brought that full-circle? Yeah.).
Yawn......

First cycling was not a team sport.

Then it became a road race solo sport.

Then you rode in a "team".

So it sounds like a pro stage race has multiple winners, single winners and a winning team.

It's raining here this morning, have to get on the phone and call my team... oops sorry team was the wrong word.

Have to call my WTF ever we want to name them, there are 14 of us out for a 6 hour ride, probably have to leave at noon.

Let's go ride our bikes.
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Old 05-31-14, 06:49 AM   #140
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If cycling is a team sport, why do we award single medals?
Here is my best guess:

Tradition.

The oldest and most storied bicycle road races that I can think of (The Tour de France and Paris-Roubaix) began as solo effort sports. As far as I know, teams did not come in to the sport until later. Perhaps it is just tradition.

Track events do award team medals for multiple rider events like team pursuit and team time trial and madison, but those have a different tradition.

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Old 05-31-14, 06:50 AM   #141
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stop feeding the troll, jfc.
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Old 05-31-14, 07:27 AM   #142
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Here is my best guess:

Tradition.

The oldest and most storied bicycle road races that I can think of (The Tour de France and Paris-Roubaix) began as solo effort sports. As far as I know, teams did not come in to the sport until later. Perhaps it is just tradition.

Track events do award team medals for multiple rider events like team pursuit and team time trial and madison, but those have a different tradition.
Agreed. There is a lot of tradition in this sport.
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Old 05-31-14, 07:50 AM   #143
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Pure and simple, because it's a goofy sport. But let's get some perspective here, all teams sports are goofy to a non-fan. I used to avidly follow Pro Football, and even those games have silliness if you're honest about it ... and watching soccer I can't even figure out why the fans cheer when they do. I could go on, but the basic fact is that it's just a feature of team sports.
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Old 06-04-14, 10:51 AM   #144
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You went full circle well before your parenthetical phrase.

Semantic tautology is boring. Are you incapable of connotation or nuanced discussion? e.g. I have absolutely seen victors share their wins with their teammates. Both the prizes, the credit, the photos, the glory. You name it, they shared it.
What do you keep going on about? Are you incapable to staying even remotely relevant?

That you have to differentiate between victors and their teammates is the end of your argument. Victor. Teammate. The results list had one number one, did it not? It did.
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Old 06-04-14, 10:54 AM   #145
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Yawn......

First cycling was not a team sport.

Then it became a road race solo sport.

Then you rode in a "team".

So it sounds like a pro stage race has multiple winners, single winners and a winning team.

It's raining here this morning, have to get on the phone and call my team... oops sorry team was the wrong word.

Have to call my WTF ever we want to name them, there are 14 of us out for a 6 hour ride, probably have to leave at noon.

Let's go ride our bikes.

Is there one winner? Then what's the argument again?

A pro stage race has one winner. A stage of such a race has one winner. That winner may or not be the overall winner, but there are not two overall winners, just like there are not two stage winners. You obviously understand this so why you're being so obtuse on the matter is beyond me. It certainly doesn't help you try to make a point.
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Old 06-04-14, 10:57 AM   #146
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See, this is why Fudgy is saying that you're just spouting tautologies. Yeah, duh - there is one winner of a race. By definition. What's being debated is the merit of that particular definition. It would certainly be possible to score bike races differently. There are actual, factual, internationally contested bike race formats that are scored differently. But you're getting all hung up on the picture in the dictionary, rather than the reasons that that's the picture Webster chose - and if maybe he had other options.

And it's not actually taking the discussion anywhere productive. Maybe you think it's because you're just speaking truth and no one can handle your straight-talking ways, but damn if YMCA didn't just come in here with some strong opinions and a friggin' point to go with them. And lo and behold, no one is telling him he needs to switch to decaf.
Is that what's being debated?

The first person over the line is the winner and is that right or not? I don't think that's the issue, here, but if you say so...

Next up for debate, whether or not the winners of a Nascar race, running race, horse race, school yard sprint, etc., should be the "winner".
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Old 06-04-14, 10:58 AM   #147
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Well I don't think the thread was about whether teamwork exists, it was about how much recognition they should get. Do you think everyone on the team should get a metal / stripes?

Personally I don't think they should get much more than a thank you and some $$. Champions are unique, and while they may need help to win, the helpers are relatively common and interchangeable.

Good call and excellent points.
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Old 06-04-14, 10:58 AM   #148
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I do not believe that team members of amateur national champions should be allowed to have stripes on their sleeves.

Exactly what I said. If shovelhd agrees, then there really is nothing left to argue.
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Old 06-04-14, 11:44 AM   #149
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Old 06-04-14, 11:53 AM   #150
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Woah, it's like an emoticon peloton.
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