If cycling is a team sport, why do we award single medals?
#51
out walking the earth
So, do you need a time machine to imagine Michael Jordan alone on the court against any NBA caliber team? I'm pretty sure you don't need a time machine to imagine Armstrong isolated against rivals. I mean, I think I saw a video of it the other day...
But, right, unknowable...
But, right, unknowable...
#52
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This started talking about national champs and olympics, why did it devolve into talking about amateurs? I don't even think anyone but pro/1/2 fields should have cash prizes, so no I don't care about a $10.99 trophy. But I do think pros that help a teammate win nats should get a little flag or something put on their jersey for the year. That would be nice.
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I think every Category should get paid out - you are paying to enter a race, so some of the fees should come back to you. There is a race next weekend in Central Park - paying out $8,500 to the P/1/2/3 categories, $1,100 to Cat 3 and $750 to Cat 4. Cat 5 only gets medals. I think it's a decent amount of cash to win something that you enjoy to do, that's not your primary source of income. I like riding, and would love to podium and take home a few hundred bucks one time.
#54
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I think everyone in all races should receive ponies.
Even people who thought about racing, or want to, but just haven't made it out yet.
Ponies for everyone!!!!11
Even people who thought about racing, or want to, but just haven't made it out yet.
Ponies for everyone!!!!11
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Maybe some sort of staticly stuck thing that they could remove when their year is up. That way they don't have to shell out for a brand new jersey. Or maybe I'm the only cheap one who thinks that way.
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#56
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We can reward teammembers any way we want. We can give them all trophies and jerseys and money. We can mention them in race introductions. Sure. But the dude who crosses the line first will always be the rider most valued. You can fill a Tour de France team with Hinicapies and you'll never get that team the GC win. You can take one Lance Armstrong (juiced version), give him no teammates whatsoever, and he'd still be a favorite to win. That truth dictates the actual rewards and recognition, not any particular participation/recognition system of rewards.
Yes, if Ted King had somehow won nationals as the lone rider for Cannonwhale (1980s reference) this year, he would have done it without a team. (Forgetting, for the moment, the idea of a combine with other single riders.) And therefore, he would have to share the glory with no one. And it's certainly possible to win with almost no team. Timmy Duggan in 2012 is a good example. It was just he and King riding in the Liquigas colors that year. If at some point in that race Ted King's efforts helped ensure victory for Duggan, then it was a team effort. No matter how small the team.
This started talking about national champs and olympics, why did it devolve into talking about amateurs? I don't even think anyone but pro/1/2 fields should have cash prizes, so no I don't care about a $10.99 trophy. But I do think pros that help a teammate win nats should get a little flag or something put on their jersey for the year. That would be nice.
#57
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I have my intros written out in advance. And I save them because I'll probably need them again in Colorado.
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I think every Category should get paid out - you are paying to enter a race, so some of the fees should come back to you. There is a race next weekend in Central Park - paying out $8,500 to the P/1/2/3 categories, $1,100 to Cat 3 and $750 to Cat 4. Cat 5 only gets medals. I think it's a decent amount of cash to win something that you enjoy to do, that's not your primary source of income. I like riding, and would love to podium and take home a few hundred bucks one time.
#59
out walking the earth
Most every recreational endeavor costs money to participate in. There are inherent flaws in a model where folks get paid for racing. Huge purses for park races, in a city with quite a large number of drug positives, incidences of cheating, and general recklessness seems to me a prescription for continued difficulties. I'd be happy with the $10.99 trophy, a medal, or a jersey. Cat 5s opining that they want to get paid out a few hundred bucks for winning a race is ponderous.
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This started talking about national champs and olympics, why did it devolve into talking about amateurs? I don't even think anyone but pro/1/2 fields should have cash prizes, so no I don't care about a $10.99 trophy. But I do think pros that help a teammate win nats should get a little flag or something put on their jersey for the year. That would be nice.
Most every recreational endeavor costs money to participate in. There are inherent flaws in a model where folks get paid for racing. Huge purses for park races, in a city with quite a large number of drug positives, incidences of cheating, and general recklessness seems to me a prescription for continued difficulties. I'd be happy with the $10.99 trophy, a medal, or a jersey. Cat 5s opining that they want to get paid out a few hundred bucks for winning a race is ponderous.
#61
out walking the earth
A bunch of years ago, in order to do a particular early morning series, my son needed to sleep over someone's house. Since I felt bad about it I have him my prize money throughout the series. He got a pretty good chunk of change.
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Most every recreational endeavor costs money to participate in. There are inherent flaws in a model where folks get paid for racing. Huge purses for park races, in a city with quite a large number of drug positives, incidences of cheating, and general recklessness seems to me a prescription for continued difficulties. I'd be happy with the $10.99 trophy, a medal, or a jersey. Cat 5s opining that they want to get paid out a few hundred bucks for winning a race is ponderous.
#63
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What's the problem here.
If I had to base my opinion on my abilities on my results, my opinion wouldn't be nearly as high.
If I had to base my opinion on my abilities on my results, my opinion wouldn't be nearly as high.
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I had to fill 50 seconds. It was a challenge to shorten intros such as Jens' and a bigger challenge to lengthen intros such as the entire Bissell Devo team. They had nothing on their resume`.
I have my intros written out in advance. And I save them because I'll probably need them again in Colorado.
I have my intros written out in advance. And I save them because I'll probably need them again in Colorado.
Somewhere during the Amgen, I did see Tom Boonen referred to as a stage x winner of the 2010 Amgen (or whatever year it was), but nothing else from his cycling history. I can't imagine he'd have anything from the Tour of California as one of his personal race highlights.
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I think this is a great question, Jamie. I like the idea of teammates having a small icon on their kit, like a striped shield or something with the date in it.
Team tactics most certainly play a part in pro criteriums. Just watch Bissell or UHC chop their way to victory.
Team tactics most certainly play a part in pro criteriums. Just watch Bissell or UHC chop their way to victory.
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Once you were selected to ride in pro team, became part of the team and worked with the team, you will understand that pro cycling is totally a "Team" sport.
Unless I have missed something in the English dictionary, defining the word "Team"
Unless I have missed something in the English dictionary, defining the word "Team"
#67
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I think all I said was "Ladies and Gentlemen, it's Tom Boonen!!" and the crowd filled the other 57 seconds with cheering. Less is more.
#21 Tom Boonen
age 33 Mol Belgium
4x winner of Paris Roubaix
3x Winner of Tour of Flanders
multiple stage winner in all three Grand Tours
2005 World Champion
TRIVIA: 2x World Champion. Road and….. TTT in 2012
TRIVIA - Has ridden for just two teams: QuickStep and USPostal
So far in 2014. Winning Kurne Brussels Kurne 7th at Flanders 10th at Roubaix 2nd overall, the sprinters jersey, AND 2 stages at Tour of Qatar.
Thus far this year, he has 5782.1 kilometers of racing According to procyclingstats.com
And talking about what constitutes a TEAM and who gets a piece of the trophy...
Even the NFL practice squad players get a Super Bowl ring.
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Next time the receptionist at Oracle has to step in for Larry Ellison, let us know. Your analogy compared apples to fire trucks because they both are red. Businesses and bike racing have only the most superficial similarities.
And calling something asinine drivel isn't exactly overwhelming us with a cogent rebuttal. You are glue and I am rubber; consider taking your own advice. Defending your analogy does not consist of trotting out your Thesaurus to call something names.
And calling something asinine drivel isn't exactly overwhelming us with a cogent rebuttal. You are glue and I am rubber; consider taking your own advice. Defending your analogy does not consist of trotting out your Thesaurus to call something names.
The comparison dealt with a leader receiving credit for doing what a leader does. That I have to break that down and explain it to you says enough on its own.
Your asinine comment was just that. It wasn't a rebuttal, it was just you regurgitating vitriol because you had nothing else to contribute. Work on it.
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Are you serious?
You can take whatever glory you need to take to make you feel like you're doing something worthwhile. At the end of the day, the only glory is the one bestowed to the guy that crossed the line first. That's why we have "winners". That's why we have "titles".
You can take whatever glory you need to take to make you feel like you're doing something worthwhile. At the end of the day, the only glory is the one bestowed to the guy that crossed the line first. That's why we have "winners". That's why we have "titles".
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I
So following this example, none of the NFL linemen should get a Super Bowl ring because they didn't experience the individual glory of scoring a touchdown. I know that's not exactly what you meant, but it's a pretty accurate parallel. Cycling is full of riders who can't win a race, but football is full of players who can't throw, catch, or run.
So following this example, none of the NFL linemen should get a Super Bowl ring because they didn't experience the individual glory of scoring a touchdown. I know that's not exactly what you meant, but it's a pretty accurate parallel. Cycling is full of riders who can't win a race, but football is full of players who can't throw, catch, or run.
Cycling isn't so they don't. That's why cycling isn't a team sport in that vein, it's an individual sport. My point all along.
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Exactly this. We reward bike races the way we do because that's historically how we've done it. At some point, people like needmoreair start to assume that things are the way they are because that's how they work organically, and that's when electrons start getting wasted moving hot air from one node on the network to all the others. But bike racing isn't organic.
Yeah, silly me, thinking a RACE is about something other than the fastest person getting across the line first. As if bike racing is the only sport utilizing such a "non-organic" system of rewarding the first person to finish the glory.
How crazy we humans have been throughout history.
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This started talking about national champs and olympics, why did it devolve into talking about amateurs? I don't even think anyone but pro/1/2 fields should have cash prizes, so no I don't care about a $10.99 trophy. But I do think pros that help a teammate win nats should get a little flag or something put on their jersey for the year. That would be nice.
A teammate that doesn't win nats is NOT the winner. This is a ridiculously simple concept and I'm having a really hard time figuring out how anyone can think that a person that does NOT win a race should be rewarded in the same vein as someone that does.
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But let me know the next time the entire team steps on to the podium after winning the weekend race/NRC race/Giro stage, etc.
#74
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I know this might be a bit deep for you.
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