Cat 5 Question
06-03-14, 11:45 AM
#2
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The 5 designation still prevents some strong triathlete from coming into your 4/5 races, winning 2, and racing 3s as his 3rd race. So, while not the segregation it was probably intended for, it's not totally useless.
06-03-14, 12:13 PM
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In many ways the Category model is broken, mixing the 5's with 4's is just one example. Category 5 is supposed to be for racers to learn the craft, but its just treated like any other race.
My last race was a technical crit, corners no wider than 6 feet, and no way people can go into them with any speed or do any passing. Our race probably had at least 5 people racing for the first time. There was no briefing about the corners, or any other pre race advisories (holding lines, crossing wheels)...just a whistle. So what happens? 2 guys end up in the hospital because they go into the corner too fast and cross wheels.
Not everyone learns the craft prior to going to a race. Some guys just buy a bike, and go to a race, they have no clue about pack safety, and the Cat 5 format only really ensures these guys only endanger other Cat 5's. USAC could do some things better that would make it useful, (puts on flamesuit) but its treated like any other race.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, Cat 5 is pointless in its current model.
My last race was a technical crit, corners no wider than 6 feet, and no way people can go into them with any speed or do any passing. Our race probably had at least 5 people racing for the first time. There was no briefing about the corners, or any other pre race advisories (holding lines, crossing wheels)...just a whistle. So what happens? 2 guys end up in the hospital because they go into the corner too fast and cross wheels.
Not everyone learns the craft prior to going to a race. Some guys just buy a bike, and go to a race, they have no clue about pack safety, and the Cat 5 format only really ensures these guys only endanger other Cat 5's. USAC could do some things better that would make it useful, (puts on flamesuit) but its treated like any other race.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, Cat 5 is pointless in its current model.
06-03-14, 12:23 PM
#4
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There are two dynamics going on here. One is the structure created by USAC to promote racing and create a safe and viable method for holding races. The second is the work of the promoter putting on the races.
USAC created Cat 5 to create a channel for new racers to learn to race and limit their potential damage to other, more experienced racers. But that only works if there are enough racers.
Promoters have to structure events to maximize their gains vs. their costs. Few people are making money putting on races, and if it is financially viable to run separate events for the 4s and the 5s, then promoters will do it.
This is an even bigger issue in women's racing, where women 4s (All women start as 4s) are often placed in women's open events, meaning new racers are going against 3s, 2s, 1s and sometimes pros.
Another thing to consider is that field size varies by region. In some parts of the country, they can fill two Cat 5 fields and two Cat 4 fields in one day. In other parts, they can hardly fill a single 4/5 race.
USAC created Cat 5 to create a channel for new racers to learn to race and limit their potential damage to other, more experienced racers. But that only works if there are enough racers.
Promoters have to structure events to maximize their gains vs. their costs. Few people are making money putting on races, and if it is financially viable to run separate events for the 4s and the 5s, then promoters will do it.
This is an even bigger issue in women's racing, where women 4s (All women start as 4s) are often placed in women's open events, meaning new racers are going against 3s, 2s, 1s and sometimes pros.
Another thing to consider is that field size varies by region. In some parts of the country, they can fill two Cat 5 fields and two Cat 4 fields in one day. In other parts, they can hardly fill a single 4/5 race.
06-03-14, 12:25 PM
#5
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In many ways the Category model is broken, mixing the 5's with 4's is just one example. Category 5 is supposed to be for racers to learn the craft, but its just treated like any other race.
My last race was a technical crit, corners no wider than 6 feet, and no way people can go into them with any speed or do any passing. Our race probably had at least 5 people racing for the first time. There was no briefing about the corners, or any other pre race advisories (holding lines, crossing wheels)...just a whistle. So what happens? 2 guys end up in the hospital because they go into the corner too fast and cross wheels.
Not everyone learns the craft prior to going to a race. Some guys just buy a bike, and go to a race, they have no clue about pack safety, and the Cat 5 format only really ensures these guys only endanger other Cat 5's. USAC could do some things better that would make it useful, (puts on flamesuit) but its treated like any other race.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, Cat 5 is pointless in its current model.
My last race was a technical crit, corners no wider than 6 feet, and no way people can go into them with any speed or do any passing. Our race probably had at least 5 people racing for the first time. There was no briefing about the corners, or any other pre race advisories (holding lines, crossing wheels)...just a whistle. So what happens? 2 guys end up in the hospital because they go into the corner too fast and cross wheels.
Not everyone learns the craft prior to going to a race. Some guys just buy a bike, and go to a race, they have no clue about pack safety, and the Cat 5 format only really ensures these guys only endanger other Cat 5's. USAC could do some things better that would make it useful, (puts on flamesuit) but its treated like any other race.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, Cat 5 is pointless in its current model.
06-03-14, 12:28 PM
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In many ways the Category model is broken, mixing the 5's with 4's is just one example. Category 5 is supposed to be for racers to learn the craft, but its just treated like any other race.
My last race was a technical crit, corners no wider than 6 feet, and no way people can go into them with any speed or do any passing. Our race probably had at least 5 people racing for the first time. There was no briefing about the corners, or any other pre race advisories (holding lines, crossing wheels)...just a whistle. So what happens? 2 guys end up in the hospital because they go into the corner too fast and cross wheels.
Not everyone learns the craft prior to going to a race. Some guys just buy a bike, and go to a race, they have no clue about pack safety, and the Cat 5 format only really ensures these guys only endanger other Cat 5's. USAC could do some things better that would make it useful, (puts on flamesuit) but its treated like any other race.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, Cat 5 is pointless in its current model.
My last race was a technical crit, corners no wider than 6 feet, and no way people can go into them with any speed or do any passing. Our race probably had at least 5 people racing for the first time. There was no briefing about the corners, or any other pre race advisories (holding lines, crossing wheels)...just a whistle. So what happens? 2 guys end up in the hospital because they go into the corner too fast and cross wheels.
Not everyone learns the craft prior to going to a race. Some guys just buy a bike, and go to a race, they have no clue about pack safety, and the Cat 5 format only really ensures these guys only endanger other Cat 5's. USAC could do some things better that would make it useful, (puts on flamesuit) but its treated like any other race.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, Cat 5 is pointless in its current model.
Earlier this year in a Cat 5 race I was watching, the lead official collected the guys that had fallen off the back (maybe 10 guys or so) and regrouped them as a chase group. Their instructions were that they stay together and race as a group since that was the intent of cat 5. I thought this was a great approach. These guys have already been dropped and were learning nothing, but the official made sure they got more pack time in the race.
So, there are some merits to cat 5 racing, but it is tough as you get a rather large spetctrum of abilities amongst the racers.
06-03-14, 02:31 PM
#7
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I think it varies per location. For instance, I was a Cat 5 last season here in Texas. I raced 4 road races (Cat 5), 4 crits (Cat 5), 2 crits (Cat 4/5), and 2 stage races (TT, Crit, RR) (Cat 5). There were plenty of races I did not do simply because there was no C5 category only 4/5 and I did not feel ready. I am a 4 now and when I race 4/5 races there are guys who have been racing as a 4 for a couple of years who are going balls out while first-timer 5's are trying to hold on and survive. I think it pushes some of them away from the sport. I understand promoters need to make $, but I have yet to see a Cat 5 race that wasn't close to selling out in this region.
06-03-14, 03:01 PM
#8
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My last race was a technical crit, corners no wider than 6 feet, and no way people can go into them with any speed or do any passing. Our race probably had at least 5 people racing for the first time. There was no briefing about the corners, or any other pre race advisories (holding lines, crossing wheels)...just a whistle. So what happens? 2 guys end up in the hospital because they go into the corner too fast and cross wheels.
And second, there's no way that these guys crossed wheels and crashed because they went into these technical corners too fast. Crashes in a Cat 5 race almost never have anything to do with speed. They happen because guys get into situations, in corners or even on straights, where they are going too slow, they're going all over the place in different directions, someone gets tangled up with someone else and down they go.
Let's not get overly dramatic, okay? There are lots of problems and limitations in the way that beginner racers are handled by USAC. That's a far cry from Cat 5 being pointless. It's better that we have Cat 5 than not. That's a pretty long way from the system being perfect, or even acceptable. But the basic concept served by Cat 5 is a good idea, even if it ends up being combined with Cat 4 sometimes. The problem is that just having a Category 5 is not sufficient by itself to address the needs of new racers.
06-03-14, 03:09 PM
#9
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The problem here with lack of instruction is acknowledged, but I'm going to tell you that, if anything, your incorrect assessment of what went wrong here emphasizes the size of the problem. First, what exactly can an official say at the start line about technical corners to get Cat 5s safely through them? Yes, a warning that there are challenging corners on the course is good to have, but beyond that, what? "Hold your line"? One of the differences between a Cat 5 and a Cat 1 (or a typical Cat 3, even) is that a Cat 5 thinks "hold your line" is an instruction that conveys some kind of useful information to the riders hearing it. But it doesn't, and that's part of why we laugh at it as a tedious cliche around here. What these riders need is practical instruction on how to approach corners, both solo and in a large pack. And the only practical way to do that is on-the-bike clinics and instruction, which USAC doesn't want to make mandatory. "Hold your line" is a joke. Well, okay, what if you hold your line, but your line is dangerous and terrible? Or you think you're holding your line, but you aren't? And "don't cross wheels" is similarly supposed to do what, exactly? I think it's safe to say that these guys probably didn't want to cross wheels. They just failed to prevent it. Might as well tell them "don't crash."
And second, there's no way that these guys crossed wheels and crashed because they went into these technical corners too fast. Crashes in a Cat 5 race almost never have anything to do with speed. They happen because guys get into situations, in corners or even on straights, where they are going too slow, they're going all over the place in different directions, someone gets tangled up with someone else and down they go.
Let's not get overly dramatic, okay? There are lots of problems and limitations in the way that beginner racers are handled by USAC. That's a far cry from Cat 5 being pointless. It's better that we have Cat 5 than not. That's a pretty long way from the system being perfect, or even acceptable. But the basic concept served by Cat 5 is a good idea, even if it ends up being combined with Cat 4 sometimes. The problem is that just having a Category 5 is not sufficient by itself to address the needs of new racers.
And second, there's no way that these guys crossed wheels and crashed because they went into these technical corners too fast. Crashes in a Cat 5 race almost never have anything to do with speed. They happen because guys get into situations, in corners or even on straights, where they are going too slow, they're going all over the place in different directions, someone gets tangled up with someone else and down they go.
Let's not get overly dramatic, okay? There are lots of problems and limitations in the way that beginner racers are handled by USAC. That's a far cry from Cat 5 being pointless. It's better that we have Cat 5 than not. That's a pretty long way from the system being perfect, or even acceptable. But the basic concept served by Cat 5 is a good idea, even if it ends up being combined with Cat 4 sometimes. The problem is that just having a Category 5 is not sufficient by itself to address the needs of new racers.
06-03-14, 03:19 PM
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As a newer racer, I think a clinic would be a great requirement prior to racing. Something like "clinic instruction on the following topics are required prior to entry into a race: insert items here".
However, there seems to be a shortage of these clinics. We have them in NorCal, but they are in January and not too many new racers are thinking about clinics or racing in January. If there were clinics available on a stand alone bi-monthly basis or prior to races on a montly basis, that could be beneficial. There seems to be a lot of experienced folk that offer up "go to a clinic, go do drills, etc", but there aren't a lot of clinics nor a lot of experienced folks readily available to run through bumping drills with cat 5s. Most 5s aren't on teams, so they likely don't have those resources/people at hand. As a result, it tends to come down to learning by doing in the cat 5 races. In the long run, it works, but might not be the best option.
However, there seems to be a shortage of these clinics. We have them in NorCal, but they are in January and not too many new racers are thinking about clinics or racing in January. If there were clinics available on a stand alone bi-monthly basis or prior to races on a montly basis, that could be beneficial. There seems to be a lot of experienced folk that offer up "go to a clinic, go do drills, etc", but there aren't a lot of clinics nor a lot of experienced folks readily available to run through bumping drills with cat 5s. Most 5s aren't on teams, so they likely don't have those resources/people at hand. As a result, it tends to come down to learning by doing in the cat 5 races. In the long run, it works, but might not be the best option.
Last edited by hack; 06-03-14 at 03:22 PM.
06-03-14, 03:44 PM
#11
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On the issue of being dropped, for me there were 2 reasons I've been dropped:
One was in a 4/5 crit - my first crit after a crash in a cat 5 crit. I was dropped in 3 laps. Lack of confidence was the definite issue there. For confidence, you really need pack experience.
But the other reason is lack of repeatable top end power - you don't get that unless you are racing or doing some serious interval work. But that can be built relatively quickly. We have a local Saturday fast group ride. I was dropped twice the first time, once the second time, and after that I was helping reel in breaks and contesting sprints. It took me all of 2 weeks to build the fitness needed. Granted, that was after I had at least a bit of base fitness, but there's gotta be some way to let all cat 5s everywhere know they won't keep getting dropped forever!
One was in a 4/5 crit - my first crit after a crash in a cat 5 crit. I was dropped in 3 laps. Lack of confidence was the definite issue there. For confidence, you really need pack experience.
But the other reason is lack of repeatable top end power - you don't get that unless you are racing or doing some serious interval work. But that can be built relatively quickly. We have a local Saturday fast group ride. I was dropped twice the first time, once the second time, and after that I was helping reel in breaks and contesting sprints. It took me all of 2 weeks to build the fitness needed. Granted, that was after I had at least a bit of base fitness, but there's gotta be some way to let all cat 5s everywhere know they won't keep getting dropped forever!
06-03-14, 04:31 PM
#13
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just to clarify there was an additional beginner race clinic on May 18th in NCNCA (nor-cal) so it does exist mid season for some lucky people. i would also say that most of the bigger crits around here have a cat 5/mentored field and the mentors are typically masters 123s....seasoned types
also Hack...cat 3 in 12 months....nice man
also Hack...cat 3 in 12 months....nice man
Last edited by save10; 06-03-14 at 04:40 PM.
06-03-14, 05:40 PM
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This issue came up at our last local Association meeting. It was suggested that the local racers get together and submit a proposal on how they would like the Cat system to work. Here is what we came up with:
Cat 5s line up at the back of the Pro 1/2 race. When they get dropped by the 1st or 2nd lap they will quickly learn what bike racing is really all about: humiliation & self loathing.
For those that have the stones to come back 10 times they get moved down in categories gradually until they can complete an entire race.
Upon reaching this ultimate category they will be awarded an official "Pack Fodder" jersey which they must wear until they can podium races consistently (or at least top 10 with a valid excuse*).
5 podiums, 10 top 10s with a valid excuse*, or 8 top 10s with at least 3 awesome excuses** = UPGRADE!
* Excuses such as "I'm tapering", "I drank too much last night", "I forgot my gel", "That dude didn't hold his line", etc... = Immediate Downgrade
** Awesome excuses would be: "My cleat broke & I had to sprint with 1 leg", "I swallowed my inhaler", "The follow car hit me", etc...
Cat 5s line up at the back of the Pro 1/2 race. When they get dropped by the 1st or 2nd lap they will quickly learn what bike racing is really all about: humiliation & self loathing.
For those that have the stones to come back 10 times they get moved down in categories gradually until they can complete an entire race.
Upon reaching this ultimate category they will be awarded an official "Pack Fodder" jersey which they must wear until they can podium races consistently (or at least top 10 with a valid excuse*).
5 podiums, 10 top 10s with a valid excuse*, or 8 top 10s with at least 3 awesome excuses** = UPGRADE!
* Excuses such as "I'm tapering", "I drank too much last night", "I forgot my gel", "That dude didn't hold his line", etc... = Immediate Downgrade
** Awesome excuses would be: "My cleat broke & I had to sprint with 1 leg", "I swallowed my inhaler", "The follow car hit me", etc...
06-03-14, 08:16 PM
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In Lambra you have a lot of people who are cat 1 in mtb, cyclocross, or cross country. They show up for their one or two road race a year, blow everyone out, then not show up till next year. I'm not sure if everywhere is like this but a 44 mile cat 5 race averaging 23.8mph seems relatively quick?
People finally started upgrading this year since last year the top 10 people were like this. One upgraded to 4 and his first 4 race got 3rd.
I know this year if you race in a 4/5 race as a 4 it doesn't even count towards your point in our area. They have enough people and are forcing people to upgrade finally to stop it. The funny thing is, there are barely in 1 or 2's then too. The 1 cat 1 guy got blown out by 40 places by a cat 2 from Texas that I know in the Fayateville stage race both in the road and tt section.
People finally started upgrading this year since last year the top 10 people were like this. One upgraded to 4 and his first 4 race got 3rd.
I know this year if you race in a 4/5 race as a 4 it doesn't even count towards your point in our area. They have enough people and are forcing people to upgrade finally to stop it. The funny thing is, there are barely in 1 or 2's then too. The 1 cat 1 guy got blown out by 40 places by a cat 2 from Texas that I know in the Fayateville stage race both in the road and tt section.
06-03-14, 08:25 PM
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just to clarify there was an additional beginner race clinic on May 18th in NCNCA (nor-cal) so it does exist mid season for some lucky people. i would also say that most of the bigger crits around here have a cat 5/mentored field and the mentors are typically masters 123s....seasoned types
also Hack...cat 3 in 12 months....nice man
also Hack...cat 3 in 12 months....nice man
Also, I did do that mid-year clinic last year. It was helpful and we covered a wide range of topics:
-bumping drills
-rubbing wheels drills
-avoiding sudden braking
-cornering solo and with others
-some sprinting
I wish we had covered more pack riding though, but ran out of time.
Ultimately, it seems there is no real cat 5 solution and it will vary region to region.
Last edited by hack; 06-03-14 at 08:32 PM.
06-03-14, 09:08 PM
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I agree, mixing the 4's in with the 5's is just not a good idea. Naturally the 4's are going to push the pace faster, maybe more than what the 5's are comfortable with, and then you risk accidents or the 5's end up getting dropped, defeating the whole purpose of the category 5.
06-03-14, 09:12 PM
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The problem here with lack of instruction is acknowledged, but I'm going to tell you that, if anything, your incorrect assessment of what went wrong here emphasizes the size of the problem. First, what exactly can an official say at the start line about technical corners to get Cat 5s safely through them? Yes, a warning that there are challenging corners on the course is good to have, but beyond that, what? "Hold your line"? One of the differences between a Cat 5 and a Cat 1 (or a typical Cat 3, even) is that a Cat 5 thinks "hold your line" is an instruction that conveys some kind of useful information to the riders hearing it. But it doesn't, and that's part of why we laugh at it as a tedious cliche around here. What these riders need is practical instruction on how to approach corners, both solo and in a large pack. And the only practical way to do that is on-the-bike clinics and instruction, which USAC doesn't want to make mandatory. "Hold your line" is a joke. Well, okay, what if you hold your line, but your line is dangerous and terrible? Or you think you're holding your line, but you aren't? And "don't cross wheels" is similarly supposed to do what, exactly? I think it's safe to say that these guys probably didn't want to cross wheels. They just failed to prevent it. Might as well tell them "don't crash."
And second, there's no way that these guys crossed wheels and crashed because they went into these technical corners too fast. Crashes in a Cat 5 race almost never have anything to do with speed. They happen because guys get into situations, in corners or even on straights, where they are going too slow, they're going all over the place in different directions, someone gets tangled up with someone else and down they go.
Let's not get overly dramatic, okay? There are lots of problems and limitations in the way that beginner racers are handled by USAC. That's a far cry from Cat 5 being pointless. It's better that we have Cat 5 than not. That's a pretty long way from the system being perfect, or even acceptable. But the basic concept served by Cat 5 is a good idea, even if it ends up being combined with Cat 4 sometimes. The problem is that just having a Category 5 is not sufficient by itself to address the needs of new racers.
And second, there's no way that these guys crossed wheels and crashed because they went into these technical corners too fast. Crashes in a Cat 5 race almost never have anything to do with speed. They happen because guys get into situations, in corners or even on straights, where they are going too slow, they're going all over the place in different directions, someone gets tangled up with someone else and down they go.
Let's not get overly dramatic, okay? There are lots of problems and limitations in the way that beginner racers are handled by USAC. That's a far cry from Cat 5 being pointless. It's better that we have Cat 5 than not. That's a pretty long way from the system being perfect, or even acceptable. But the basic concept served by Cat 5 is a good idea, even if it ends up being combined with Cat 4 sometimes. The problem is that just having a Category 5 is not sufficient by itself to address the needs of new racers.
06-03-14, 10:45 PM
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I agree, mixing the 4's in with the 5's is just not a good idea. Naturally the 4's are going to push the pace faster, maybe more than what the 5's are comfortable with, and then you risk accidents or the 5's end up getting dropped, defeating the whole purpose of the category 5.
06-04-14, 01:56 AM
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This explains 95% of my results as well ... good job on your upgrade. I have been trying for the last two years to improve on my ability to get in breaks and improve my threshold riding, but by far the best way for me to get a result is hide and wait. It is nice to know where you fit in the puzzle.
06-04-14, 02:04 AM
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I feel very lucky to race in Oregon, especially the Portland area. We have races nearly every day in the summer and many have races for new riders, often with clinics/assisted cat 5 races that make for a much easier entry into the sport. Pack racing is not easy for those who just jump in with no idea what they are doing.
I think it would be nice if it was a basic requirement to offer a short cat 5 only guided race at most crits and circuit races. It doesn't take much time to add and only needs to be 15 to 20 minutes long. It should also be a requirement to be in a few guided races before doing am unguided cat 4/5 race. I know that most velodromes take this more seriously and require certification before racing, I don't think it would reduce racing, and might even increase it if new racers thought it might be safer to enter the sport.
I think it would be nice if it was a basic requirement to offer a short cat 5 only guided race at most crits and circuit races. It doesn't take much time to add and only needs to be 15 to 20 minutes long. It should also be a requirement to be in a few guided races before doing am unguided cat 4/5 race. I know that most velodromes take this more seriously and require certification before racing, I don't think it would reduce racing, and might even increase it if new racers thought it might be safer to enter the sport.
06-04-14, 07:30 AM
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In Lambra you have a lot of people who are cat 1 in mtb, cyclocross, or cross country. They show up for their one or two road race a year, blow everyone out, then not show up till next year. I'm not sure if everywhere is like this but a 44 mile cat 5 race averaging 23.8mph seems relatively quick?
People finally started upgrading this year since last year the top 10 people were like this. One upgraded to 4 and his first 4 race got 3rd.
I know this year if you race in a 4/5 race as a 4 it doesn't even count towards your point in our area. They have enough people and are forcing people to upgrade finally to stop it. The funny thing is, there are barely in 1 or 2's then too. The 1 cat 1 guy got blown out by 40 places by a cat 2 from Texas that I know in the Fayateville stage race both in the road and tt section.
People finally started upgrading this year since last year the top 10 people were like this. One upgraded to 4 and his first 4 race got 3rd.
I know this year if you race in a 4/5 race as a 4 it doesn't even count towards your point in our area. They have enough people and are forcing people to upgrade finally to stop it. The funny thing is, there are barely in 1 or 2's then too. The 1 cat 1 guy got blown out by 40 places by a cat 2 from Texas that I know in the Fayateville stage race both in the road and tt section.
This does not pertain to Triathletes, who are governed by USAT.
And yes, 4/5 races do count toward 4 to 3 upgrades. The only issue is that USAC only counts the Cat 4s toward the number of starters, and points available are based on the number of starters. And it's your placing in the whole race, not in your category, that is counted.
06-04-14, 07:38 AM
#23
pan y agua
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Before we even had Cat 5, the system was designed to rely on Clubs/Teams to teach their new members.
I think the ideas in this thread such as clinincs, and seperate 5's races, are good, but are difficult for organizers.
Another answer is a greater emphasis on Clubs/Teams. If you go out and do the training rides with the local racers, find a Club/Team to learn from, you can learn a fair amount of what you need to know before you do your first actual race.
Increasing unaffiliated rider fees would help in this regard.
Arguably this could discourage new riders, but you could mitigate that effect by giving out information on hooking up with a club at the same time you collect the unafilliated rider fee.
I think the ideas in this thread such as clinincs, and seperate 5's races, are good, but are difficult for organizers.
Another answer is a greater emphasis on Clubs/Teams. If you go out and do the training rides with the local racers, find a Club/Team to learn from, you can learn a fair amount of what you need to know before you do your first actual race.
Increasing unaffiliated rider fees would help in this regard.
Arguably this could discourage new riders, but you could mitigate that effect by giving out information on hooking up with a club at the same time you collect the unafilliated rider fee.
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You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
06-04-14, 10:06 AM
#24
Senior Member
I'm not trying to start a fight or call anyone stupid. I'm just trying to point out that inexperience will make it harder to even know what lesson to draw from something that went wrong, or how to fix the problems with running races for beginners. My point was just to emphasize even more strongly how dysfunctional it is to just throw the n00bs into the deep end and let them sink or swim. But I also think that Cat 5 is part of a good solution to training new racers, and that mixing it with Cat 4 from time to time doesn't render it useless.
06-04-14, 10:11 AM
#25
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Here is an email from a race we had recently:
So racing in a 4/5 mixed field in Lambra as a 4 is no different than just being a 4 it seems. The cross country and what not are classified as 3, 2, 1 so maybe that is why there is some issues there. But I would hope anyone doing 100kmh+ cross country as cat 1 would start as a 4 or 3 at least. But nope, we get them in cat 5. The last race they had one as a 4 ride off the front and win by 3 minutes solo.
As this race is sold out and there have been a few guys contact me about a waiting list to get in should anyone of you not show up on race day, I want to make the Cat 4 guys aware of the rules for this race.
Cat 4 guys in this race are not eligible for prizes of any kind and do not receive LAMBRA / LCCS points. They will not be recognized on any podium only listed in the finish results. If you are a Cat 4 and racing this to win, you should be in the Cat 3/4 race. There will be podiums for both Cat 3 and Cat 4 in that race and you will also be eligible for the prize money and primes.
The only reason that Cat 4s are allowed in this race is due to an old loop hole in the USAC rules that allowed field expansion to 75 riders if there was a combined field, this rule is no longer in effect as of this year, so next year this race will be Cat 5 only.
Should you want to transfer to the 3/4 race please let me know so that I can move you and allow some more guys the opportunity to race.
I look forward to seeing everyone next weekend.
Cat 4 guys in this race are not eligible for prizes of any kind and do not receive LAMBRA / LCCS points. They will not be recognized on any podium only listed in the finish results. If you are a Cat 4 and racing this to win, you should be in the Cat 3/4 race. There will be podiums for both Cat 3 and Cat 4 in that race and you will also be eligible for the prize money and primes.
The only reason that Cat 4s are allowed in this race is due to an old loop hole in the USAC rules that allowed field expansion to 75 riders if there was a combined field, this rule is no longer in effect as of this year, so next year this race will be Cat 5 only.
Should you want to transfer to the 3/4 race please let me know so that I can move you and allow some more guys the opportunity to race.
I look forward to seeing everyone next weekend.
