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  1. #26
    Senior Member topflightpro's Avatar
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    I've heard the argument that it's better to train on heavier wheels, but I honestly don't notice much of a difference between my heavier wheels and lighter wheels.

    As for wheels, I go through phases. For awhile, I rode basic, but light, aluminum rim wheels. Then I rode carbon tubulars daily (except on the trainer). Now, I'm riding a set of Mavic Cosmic Carbone SLRs I picked up cheap a few years ago. They used to be my race wheels before I got tubulars.

    And I don't think tubulars are that big of a PIA, unless you have to completely de-glue a rim. That sucks. But just this week I removed and re-glued one of my tires because it didn't feel secure enough to me - Vittoria tire, seemed like it had lost some adhesion due to the deflating and sitting all winter like that.

    Lastly, the only thing even remotely difficult about swapping wheels is changing pads for carbon rims. Even that only takes a couple of minutes.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moyene Corniche View Post
    For every day riding and training, use a heavier set of wheels and tires . This makes your race wheel set feel even lighter come race day.
    This is actually a brilliant idea I should have thought of, akin to a baseball player swinging a baseball bat with a donut while on-deck. I bet heavy, clunky wheels are not expensive. This goes against where I said that swapping wheels out often would be a minor PIA, but maybe it's worth it for the possible improvement.

  3. #28
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    ^training on heavier wheels doesn't make any sense for enhancing you're training because you can just go faster.

    Also, there are myriad studies by people smarter than I am where the conclusions are that wheel weight vs. any other weight on a bike is indifferent because once momentum is established the inertia required to increase speeds is negligible. i.e. weight on a wheel is no different than carrying extra flab around the middle or carrying some rocks in your pockets, meaning the weight of the entire system matters but where the weight is located doesn't. There are probably exceptions like accelerating on steep climbs or attacking from very slow speeds GT contender style but these are pretty special case scenarios when applied to the riding and racing most of us posting here do.

  4. #29
    In the Pain Cave thechemist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDcatV View Post
    ^training on heavier wheels doesn't make any sense for enhancing you're training because you can just go faster.

    Also, there are myriad studies by people smarter than I am where the conclusions are that wheel weight vs. any other weight on a bike is indifferent because once momentum is established the inertiarequired to increase speeds is negligible. i.e. weight on a wheel is no different than carrying extra flab around the middle or carrying some rocks in your pockets, meaning the weight of the entire system matters but where the weight is located doesn't. There are probably exceptions like accelerating on steep climbs or attacking from very slow speeds GT contender style but these are pretty special case scenarios when applied to the riding and racing most of us posting here do.

    Not to go off track too much but none of my road races or crits are steady state.

  5. #30
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    if swapping out wheels is a pain in the ass I can't fathom how this is the sport for that particular person. I mean, jfc, I need to take my wheels off to put the bike in the car just to get to the race. And I am, I assure, the least mechanical person to ever post on these forums. I mean, I find it a pain it the ass, to change clothes to race but I still do it. I tried to race in my PJ's but they wouldn't let me start. Putting a skin suit on is tougher than changing wheels.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by thechemist View Post
    Not to go off track too much but none of my road races or crits are steady state.
    sure, but you're not stopping and starting, you're rolling and accelerating. if I understand correctly, in that instance, the force required to increase the rotational inertia on the wheel (sorry if I'm messing up the physics) is negligible vs. when compared to the whole system.

    Technical FAQ: Does wheel weight matter? - VeloNews.com

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    if swapping out wheels is a pain in the ass I can't fathom how this is the sport for that particular person. I mean, jfc, I need to take my wheels off to put the bike in the car just to get to the race. And I am, I assure, the least mechanical person to ever post on these forums. I mean, I find it a pain it the ass, to change clothes to race but I still do it. I tried to race in my PJ's but they wouldn't let me start. Putting a skin suit on is tougher than changing wheels.
    +1, seriously, changing wheels is about as much a pain in the ass as changing shoes from flip flops to cycling shoes.

  8. #33
    illusoryly superior Ygduf's Avatar
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    I change clothes to ride 3x most days. It's tragic and a pita.

    Wheel swaps take 5 minutes, and that's even counting brake pads and derailleur adjustments because half my wheels are ****ing 11s with spacers and half are normal 10s hubs.

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  9. #34
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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  10. #35
    illusoryly superior Ygduf's Avatar
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    @shovelhd cleans up!

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  11. #36
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    keep the jacket on to cover the pit stains

  12. #37
    **** that mattm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDcatV View Post
    sure, but you're not stopping and starting, you're rolling and accelerating. if I understand correctly, in that instance, the force required to increase the rotational inertia on the wheel (sorry if I'm messing up the physics) is negligible vs. when compared to the whole system.

    Technical FAQ: Does wheel weight matter? - VeloNews.com
    While I don't think it matters to train on heavier wheels, better/race wheels may well be stiffer and certainly feel snappier.

  13. #38
    avatar by Sean Powers mike868y's Avatar
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    I train and race on separate wheels although honestly my "race" wheels could probably be training wheels for a lot of people. Not having to swap tires is the biggest thing. I ride a lot and commute on some pretty shorty streets so even gp4000s never lasted for me and I wouldn't want to race on anything more heavy duty if it can be avoided.
    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    it depends

  14. #39
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    you dudes all need to strava more - all my wheels are race wheels.

    I even leave various sets of wheels around town so I can crush you all. I have heavy deep dish wheels at the top of climbs along with lead water bottles, then swap to my nano carbon tech wheels before I go back up hill again. Double disks for anything flat. All my tires are tubular one day race tires, because you never know when you will get a good tailwind and ace another KOM.

    Although seriously, I agree with the above, changing to race wheels is not hard and something we all do often just to get the bike on the car - race wheels or not. For me I no longer have race wheels, expect for the track. For the road I have a rain bike, pit wheels and everyday/race wheels. I have two sets of damaged zipps still hanging out in my basement from when I use to have race wheels, and back then it was clinchers for training and tubs for racing.

    If not for my powertap I would likely race on one set and train on my pit wheels, but I like having power numbers for everything.

  15. #40
    illusoryly superior Ygduf's Avatar
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    alwaze b racin

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  16. #41
    VeloSIRraptor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
    alwaze b CRUSHIN
    FIFY

    A.
    B.
    C.
    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    If it comes down to a field sprint, you probably won't win, so don't let it.

  17. #42
    Elite Fred mollusk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmikami View Post
    you dudes all need to strava more
    It is Virtual MUP racing.

    I quit that pretty quickly many years ago.
    I'm the world's forgotten boy. The one who's searchin', searchin' to destroy.

  18. #43
    Elite Fred mollusk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
    alwaze b racin
    So, what is the AIDA for bike racers?

    attention, interest, decision, attack?
    I'm the world's forgotten boy. The one who's searchin', searchin' to destroy.

  19. #44
    VeloSIRraptor
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    Quote Originally Posted by mollusk View Post
    So, what is the AIDA for bike racers?

    attention, interest, decision, attack?
    yeah, probably?
    Nice work there.
    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    If it comes down to a field sprint, you probably won't win, so don't let it.

  20. #45
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Those tiller bars would be awesome in a crit.

    I have carbon tubulars and clinchers. I'll race on either. I race mostly on the tubulars. At the end of the season I will do my group rides on the race wheels as a reward for the season. I change them out before the next season starts.

  21. #46
    The Slow One Alaska Mike's Avatar
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    My commuting and foul weather training wheelsets are 32 spoke, box section aluminum wheels. I've trained on lower spoke count wheels, but one broken spoke put the rim into the fork, ending the ride on a few occasions. Not a problem with higher spoke count wheels. Walking doesn't have the same training impact for me as riding. The broken pavement here is rough on wheels, especially at the end of long rides where your handling skills aren't quite as sharp.

    I have some nicer HED Kermesses and Velocity A23s (both 24/28), and I train on them quite a bit when it isn't raining and the roads are clear. They used to be my race wheels.

    My race wheels now are a couple sets of 50mm carbon tubulars. I have a dedicated race bike (or two), so swapping brake pads isn't an issue. Since 3 of my bikes likely cost me as much as one mid-grade carbon race bikes thanks to a lot of careful shopping, I can afford to have multiple bikes set up the same. If they look the same, the wife doesn't notice as much.

    She hasn't caught on to the wheelsets yet...
    My self-indulgent bike blog: http://alaskanpackfodder.blogspot.com/

  22. #47
    avatar by Sean Powers mike868y's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mollusk View Post
    It is Virtual MUP racing.

    I quit that pretty quickly many years ago.
    don't want to start a whole new discussion, but it's silly to discount strava as just being "virtual mup racing." i don't give a **** about KOMs, I've never gone out specifically to get a KOM. i use strava to track my training (don't have a pm so no fancy software), to keep up with what friends are doing, plan rides in new areas, and find new routes an such. it's a really fun and incredibly useful website and the amount of data they're amassing is impressive and will only result in more useful features. there's a lot more too it than the KOM aspect which turns people off.
    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    it depends

  23. #48
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    I use Strava too but I love to bash it and the culture it created.

  24. #49
    Banana Pancakes furiousferret's Avatar
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    @mike868y Strava is a gateway to ewangery.

    Anyway, whenever people bash Strava I just assume they're really slow.

    (yes, I am slow, and have full transparency of my slowness on Strava)
    Last edited by furiousferret; 06-06-14 at 10:19 AM.

  25. #50
    illusoryly superior Ygduf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    I use Strava too but I love to bash it and the culture it created.

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