Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-17-14, 10:23 PM   #1
R578645
Bicyclist
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Bikes:
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Cycling teams - how does the team owner profit or afford?

In a world that revolves around money, there must be a reason why there are so many cycling teams. Is it a tax deduction? There must be a huge write-off somewhere. If its advertising, its pretty hard to see the logos on the jerseys unless your drafting them. Or is it just wealthy owners that have lots of money to blow and like the sport? Even small bike shops have teams so I doubt if they would be paying out of their pocket large sums of money for an amateur team.

Last edited by R578645; 06-17-14 at 10:26 PM.
R578645 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-14, 11:10 PM   #2
Caad08
Senior Member
 
Caad08's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Bikes:
Posts: 60
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
As for advertising, think of it this way, the only reason Trek is so popular is because thats what LA rode back in the day.
Caad08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-14, 11:35 PM   #3
mkadam68
Senior Member
 
mkadam68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 30 minutes North-West of Los Angeles.
Bikes: 2012 MotorHouse road bike. No. You can't get one.
Posts: 3,677
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Two possible reasons at all levels of the sport:
  • They aim to get a return on their investment (Discovery Channel did awesome and his since faded after dropping sponsorship), or
  • They love the sport/lifestyle.
  • Or a combination of the two.

At the lower levels, it's usually because they enjoy the sport, but can also be about ROI. As for advertising, the logos are clearly visible when they do photo-shoots and other marketing materials. And those companies generally market only to their target audiences. Some teams are just simple filling out of forms and sending in a $100 check to USA Cycling (or whatever the fee is). Not every team gets free merchandise. Many riders only get discounts that actually still give the sponsoring shops a profit margin.
mkadam68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-14, 05:25 AM   #4
globecanvas
Ninny
 
globecanvas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: The Gunks
Bikes:
Posts: 4,347
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by R578645 View Post
In a world that revolves around money, there must be a reason why there are so many cycling teams. Is it a tax deduction? There must be a huge write-off somewhere. If its advertising, its pretty hard to see the logos on the jerseys unless your drafting them. Or is it just wealthy owners that have lots of money to blow and like the sport? Even small bike shops have teams so I doubt if they would be paying out of their pocket large sums of money for an amateur team.

Small local teams are often little more than somebody taking the initiative to organize a group clothing order. The somebody could be a bike shop, a local group ride, the business owned by an avid cyclist, etc.
globecanvas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-14, 05:43 AM   #5
gsteinb
out walking the earth
 
gsteinb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: teh Jersey
Bikes:
Posts: 19,820
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkadam68 View Post
They aim to get a return on their investment (Discovery Channel did awesome and his since faded after dropping sponsorship).
It could be that their program sucks.
gsteinb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-14, 07:08 AM   #6
topflightpro
Senior Member
 
topflightpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 3,893
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
OP, are you talking professional or amateur teams?

For my amateur team, we're a recognized 501(c)3 nonprofit organization that also has a "team" or club, whatever you want to call it. Our nonprofit name is on our jerseys, as is the names of our sponsors.

As for our sponsors, they are mostly companies owned by team members. They kick $500-$1000 our way as an advertising expense or charitable donation that they can write off on their taxes. Our LBS sponsor gives us discounts, which keeps us going their for parts instead of going online.

Most of our money, though, comes from the races we host. We try to make a profit on all our events. We don't bring in a ton of money, but we do try to give out as much as we can, which is usually a few thousand dollars each year to assorted groups in our area.
topflightpro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-14, 07:16 AM   #7
AST236
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: South Alabama
Bikes:
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
..............and maybe they built a good product in the USA which met a willing market? LA might have given them some good exposure, but I doubt he's the sole reason for their success.......
AST236 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-14, 07:36 AM   #8
EventServices
Announcer
 
EventServices's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Detroit's North Side.
Bikes: Many
Posts: 5,075
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
There's no ROI at the local level. I can't think of any local team that is garnering enough publicity to make a dent in the consciousness of the public.
The most popular amateur team in the country, in my mind, is the Cal Giant team in California. I doubt that Giant sees an uptick in sales because of their involvement.

We're been having this discussion among our 400-member club (100 racers). We're suggesting taking sponsors off our kit altogether and re-establishing the Club itself as the brand. We'll likely put our bike shop sponsor on the shorts. That's all.

Putting 5 or 6 little logos on the sleeves and pockets of the jersey is out; social media is in. We can do much more for our sponsors by speaking well of their product on FB and Twitter, not by posting a podium photo or race photo in which you can't even see the logo.

For many of them, it's a little ego boost to see their name on the jersey and/or a tax write-off.
Bike industry sponsors do it as a means of giving back to the sport and generating good will toward their company. It's impossible to measure sales.
And a bike shop gives members a discount on products at the shop in hopes of generating loyalty and traffic in their store.
EventServices is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-14, 08:22 AM   #9
grolby
Senior Member
 
grolby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BOSTON BABY
Bikes:
Posts: 9,187
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by EventServices View Post
We're been having this discussion among our 400-member club (100 racers). We're suggesting taking sponsors off our kit altogether and re-establishing the Club itself as the brand. We'll likely put our bike shop sponsor on the shorts. That's all.

Putting 5 or 6 little logos on the sleeves and pockets of the jersey is out; social media is in. We can do much more for our sponsors by speaking well of their product on FB and Twitter, not by posting a podium photo or race photo in which you can't even see the logo.
As I toss the idea of starting a team or club around in my head, this is one of the things I'm thinking about. I don't think identifying with sponsors is really great for club identity overall, and probably doesn't offer any real benefit to the sponsor. Of course, a lot of local team sponsors that aren't bike shops or industry brands do it as a component of community involvement, not because they expect ROI. I don't know how that angle influences the importance to them of having a spot on the jersey.
grolby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-14, 08:29 AM   #10
globecanvas
Ninny
 
globecanvas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: The Gunks
Bikes:
Posts: 4,347
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
A guy who used to race for my local, small time, one sponsor team moved to Europe to live the cycling dream. When he lined up in Belgium with our kit on, everybody thought he was with some important US team that was so big time they only needed one sponsor.
globecanvas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-14, 08:44 AM   #11
mattm
**** that
 
mattm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CALI
Bikes:
Posts: 13,648
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by EventServices View Post
There's no ROI at the local level. I can't think of any local team that is garnering enough publicity to make a dent in the consciousness of the public.
The most popular amateur team in the country, in my mind, is the Cal Giant team in California. I doubt that Giant sees an uptick in sales because of their involvement.
indeed, giant bicycle company certainly wouldn't because "cal giant" is for a berry farming operation. giant california berries or something.

at one local race they sponsor raspberry primes!

point still stands though.
__________________
cat 1.

blog
mattm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-14, 09:55 AM   #12
gsteinb
out walking the earth
 
gsteinb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: teh Jersey
Bikes:
Posts: 19,820
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by EventServices View Post
There's no ROI at the local level.
I'd say it's not quite that extreme but more like there's selective ROI. A local coach sponsoring a team of folks who largely pay for his services makes his money based on having the team. The Century21 cycling team? No discernible ROI.
gsteinb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-14, 09:58 AM   #13
gsteinb
out walking the earth
 
gsteinb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: teh Jersey
Bikes:
Posts: 19,820
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
I had conversation with the ex CEO of Serotta. He's a national champion, super smart guy. He asked me why no one rode serottas. He'd go to races and see giants treks, etc. No serottas. He asked me, as a serious racer why. The honest answer was that I ride what I get free or discounted. Giants are huge in north jersey because a lot of the faster guys on one club get them cheap, or in some cases free. Others see that and buy them. Why it works that way I have no idea. It just seems to.
gsteinb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-14, 10:54 AM   #14
grolby
Senior Member
 
grolby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BOSTON BABY
Bikes:
Posts: 9,187
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
I had conversation with the ex CEO of Serotta. He's a national champion, super smart guy. He asked me why no one rode serottas. He'd go to races and see giants treks, etc. No serottas. He asked me, as a serious racer why. The honest answer was that I ride what I get free or discounted. Giants are huge in north jersey because a lot of the faster guys on one club get them cheap, or in some cases free. Others see that and buy them. Why it works that way I have no idea. It just seems to.
As long as I've been racing, and before, the reputation of Serotta among people I knew was that they were very nice, but for club riders, not racers. We always looked at them as dentists' bikes. Seven has a bit more racing cred, but not much. Compare this to the much smaller local builder Geekhouse, which everyone around here knows is a race bike. It seems plausible that bike sponsorship at least can make a difference in how credible your brand is in the racing community.

Also, for what it's worth, Giant doesn't screw around with its race team deals - even a crappy Cat 4 on a team sponsored by Giant gets a very, very good deal on a Giant bike.
grolby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-14, 11:06 AM   #15
save10
Arrogant Roadie Punk
 
save10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: California
Bikes:
Posts: 2,353
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Official California Giant Cycling Team | Home of the Berries

here is the website for Cal-Giant (berries, not bikes...sponsored by specialized) just to close the circle on that one. with such alumni as Andrew Talansky, Even Huffman, Lucas Euser.....pretty good track record there huh.
save10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-14, 11:06 AM   #16
Gramercy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Hoboken, NJ
Bikes: Trek 1.2
Posts: 809
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
A team in NYC this year was getting the Giant TCR (with or without upgraded Zipp wheels) for 50% off. Even a Cat 5 I knew in the club got the deal and this was before his first Cat 5 race, because the deal was open to anyone in the club. I think it is one of the larger clubs in the city though, so if 50 or 100 bikes were purchased, it may have been a good deal for Giant.
Gramercy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-14, 11:11 AM   #17
gsteinb
out walking the earth
 
gsteinb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: teh Jersey
Bikes:
Posts: 19,820
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
A great deal for giant. Those were some hella ugly bikes. Can't imagine they were selling them any other way.
gsteinb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-14, 11:32 AM   #18
hack
Senior Member
 
hack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Folsom, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 3,039
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by save10 View Post
Official California Giant Cycling Team | Home of the Berries

here is the website for Cal-Giant (berries, not bikes...sponsored by specialized) just to close the circle on that one. with such alumni as Andrew Talansky, Even Huffman, Lucas Euser.....pretty good track record there huh.
I'd guess they're on with Specialized since they're only 15-miles apart.
hack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-14, 11:42 AM   #19
cafzali
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Rockland County, NY
Bikes: Giant TCR SL3 and Trek 1.5
Posts: 1,282
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caad08 View Post
As for advertising, think of it this way, the only reason Trek is so popular is because thats what LA rode back in the day.
Right, but to someone else's point, the whole discussion changes depending on whether you're talking about a local racing club or an actual pro team. In the NYC racing scene, a personal injury law firm sponsors not only a cycling team, but also a local race competition series (the Lucarelli & Castaldi cup). One of the firm's managing partners was interviewed by NYVelocity.com, which covers the NY racing scene, and while he admits his love of cycling plays a big role, it's also a good investment since, unfortunately, incidents involving cyclists aren't so rare.

I know I'm an anomoly, but I honestly know more people who have been hurt cycling than via car accidents.
cafzali is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-14, 12:56 PM   #20
EventServices
Announcer
 
EventServices's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Detroit's North Side.
Bikes: Many
Posts: 5,075
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattm View Post
indeed, giant bicycle company certainly wouldn't because "cal giant" is for a berry farming operation. giant california berries or something.

at one local race they sponsor raspberry primes!

point still stands though.
I mis-wrote that. I just said Giant when I should have said Cal Giant in the second reference. Yeah, they're not seeing an uptick.

In most cases like this, someone in the organization at some point is/was a cycling fan who funnels money into a their pet project. Good for us.
Bissell is a good example of that. The CEO is a big cycling fan/supporter. Has been for years. Expects very little ROI on the team. Probably catches hell from his board of directors.
The Larry H. Miller Tour of Utah is run that way. Steve Miller is a cycling fan who likes to rub noses with pro cyclists, so he's dumping millions into his pet race. Speak privately with anyone else in that LHM organization, and you'll hear a very negative view of that event. I have and did.
EventServices is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-14, 03:22 PM   #21
save10
Arrogant Roadie Punk
 
save10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: California
Bikes:
Posts: 2,353
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
hella ugly
did you grow up in northern california?
save10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-14, 03:37 PM   #22
gsteinb
out walking the earth
 
gsteinb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: teh Jersey
Bikes:
Posts: 19,820
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
No. But I've watched south park.
gsteinb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-14, 07:01 PM   #23
shovelhd 
Senior Member
 
shovelhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Western MA
Bikes: Yes
Posts: 15,419
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by save10 View Post
Official California Giant Cycling Team | Home of the Berries

here is the website for Cal-Giant (berries, not bikes...sponsored by specialized) just to close the circle on that one. with such alumni as Andrew Talansky, Even Huffman, Lucas Euser.....pretty good track record there huh.
The guy with no photo is a local pro who finished 5th in the TT at Nature Valley.
shovelhd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-14, 09:35 PM   #24
Caad08
Senior Member
 
Caad08's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Bikes:
Posts: 60
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My local shops all have teams, one even has 600 members or something crazy. Join for $100 and get 15% discounts. If 100 people join at $100, thats $10,000 they raised in membership fees alone.

Since they all get jerseys with the stores name on it and other sponsors names, they get free advertising when its worn to races, club rides etc, and you charge other businesses to have their name on your jersey. (More people in the club, the more you can charge.)

Additionally, if I get 15% off at your store, I'm definitely going there first, so then you have 100 people making shopping at your store a priority and giving you even more money.

All in all running a successful bike club/team doesnt seem so hard as long as you get people to join.
Caad08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-14, 02:14 AM   #25
tetonrider
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 3,333
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
The guy with no photo is a local pro who finished 5th in the TT at Nature Valley.
the team is the real-deal...but it's still a feeder team to try to help juniors transition to an actual paying (euro) gig. a good friend of mine rides for them. the kids are well supported for at races (full houses, meals, mechanic staff, paid travel, massages, coaching--yeah, for whatever reason they think that is meaningful )...but they basically still need to live in their parents' basements. when i've been around their support my thinning is always 'these kids have NO idea of how good they have it" (in terms of race support)--they don't really know any different as by and large they aren't even living on their own.

some real talent.

the masters team serves as true mentors and has guys like nolan, moore, etc. (EDIT: i think nolan's with specilaized's nccf team...but the cal-giant program is pretty awesome top-to-bottom.)
tetonrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:08 AM.