dz_nuzz

Well Trek just released more info on their new Madone.

Proprietary brakes, proprietary stem / bars, fun looking cable routing. The amount of difficulty in maintenance and things that can go wrong with these bikes is well past the point of it being worth the marginal gains at this point.

revchuck 

I wonder how much of this added complexity depresses market demand? My 2010 Look 585 is pretty traditional except for the headset, and it's a keeper. The internal routing of the rear brake cable on my 2015 Allez Comp Race seems to be a gratuitous styling gesture, though one I can grudgingly live with. Going with more internally routed stuff, when you don't have a team mechanic to maintain your bike for you, seems to have hit the point of diminishing returns.

grolby

Yeah, and with the new CAAD12, even Cannondale has gone to internal routing. Why is internal cable routing spreading through the industry like some kind of virus?

Unfortunately, the trend toward complete integration is likely to continue simply because it has advantages for the engineers (easier to to make a faster bike if you control every component) and for the bean-counters (have to buy stems/bars/etc from the bike vendor, not a third party). We're honestly pretty lucky that bikes have as much cross-compatibility as they do. Most industries don't work that way.

Harlan

Doing my second Di2 install last night on the wife's bike. First was my own. Machined down the HED freehub to take 11, drill a wire hole, hook it all up for a test...and nothing. After talking to competitive cyclist they said they don't upgrade firmware before shipment. So a full 6870 system with an external battery mount with older FW is inoperable. Now to find a dealer. A very annoying and avoidable hangup.


My bike is a 6770/6870 mashup so I need the old FW. Interestingly enough I have multi shift even with 10s shifters and FD with 11s RD. As I understand it, the multi shift FW update was supposed to disable the mashup I'm using.

grolby

Are you saying that Competitive Cyclist should be responsible for unboxing and upgrading Di2 firmware before shipping to the customer? Cause suffice it to say, I disagree.

Harlan

There are other online shops that do it, it's just the battery holder. I do know that when I buy a group I expect it to work. I ordered over the phone, pieced the group together just as I wanted it and they didn't even mention it. I didn't think of it, so it's on me obviously.

grolby

Yeah, I understand where you're coming from, I'm just surprised to hear that anyone does it at all. I wouldn't expect any product I buy that depends on software to be updated once in the hands of the retailer.

topflightpro

The latest versions of the Caad 10 also had internal routing.

I like what Cannondale did for the Evo cable routing. It's internal from the BB to the RD, but external from the headtube to BB. They have a little bolt on the underside of the downtube where mechanical users can attach a cable guide. DI2 users can simply remove the guide as all the wires are routed internally.

My Argon has internal routing from the front of the headtube down to the BB. It's ok. I like that the cables enter the front of the head tube as it creates a much cleaner look. And not having to fish cables through the chain stay is nice.

My wife's Specialized Amira has internal routing from just behind the headtube to the back of the chain stay. There is an opening under the BB to be able to fish cables through. It's an absolute PIA to set up. I've gotten better at it though, and using cable liners before removing old cables helps a lot. (If anyone needs cable liner, let me know. I bought some to make my life easier, but it only came in 30m rolls.)

And going back to the new Trek Madone, it looks like they tried to do several things to make it easier to route cables and wires, including a large removable opening on the Downtube. Still, it looks like a lot of work.

MDcatV

support your local bike shop

****ing firmware. i never heard that word until i got a quarq and now that it applies to a group set will keep me riding mechanical.

dz_nuzz

Personally I am a fan of internal routing, but that is more of an aesthetics thing than anything. The one situation that internal routing actually is an improvement I think is in keeping the cables cleaner but it is actually rare to find a bike that does this. So many of them still route the cables outside and under the BB shell which still exposes them grit and grime.

What I really want to see if some intelligent internal shaping of the tubes to help facilitate the cables actually falling into the right places when you drop them through without a liner.

TheKillerPenguin

My bike actually does this, I don't have to use a liner or guide the cable through the frame or anything, you just feed it in and it pops out the other side.

I really hope my frame's maker starts building new ones.

grolby

Yeah, but the aesthetics benefit doesn't really apply where your bike is concerned.

globecanvas

TKP runs his frame upside down.

TheKillerPenguin

But but but but Terpstra's seatpost

shovelhd

At first I thought the problem was the mashup but that's a different bike. As long as the bike is full 6870, including the battery mount, use the charger and E-Tube software to update in steps. I'd start with plugging in only the battery mount and junction boxes. Add shifters, and each dérailleur. The system gets confused when there are major revision differences between components. Once you get everything up to date you won't have to do that again next time.

dz_nuzz

I think that only applies if he has a Junction A box that supports charging an internal battery. If he has one of the older Junction A wiring harnesses then he can't plug it into his PC to run E-tube and will need to use one of the shop-level PCE-1 devices to update his firmware.

shovelhd

Good point, but that would not qualify as "full 6870".

revchuck 

Shoot...got my Black Prince brake pads in today and swapped out the factory SwissStop pads on my Allez Comp Race. Both sets appear identical. I ordered the new pads because the braking sucked with the originals, both on the stock Roval CLs and on the Boyds I'm now using. I'll try the new pads tomorrow. I sure hope the braking improves.

mattm

New Venge @ crit nats: Male Cat 1 - acaurora

Dude stayed otf for a few laps, but didn't win.

tetonrider

new Venge for maximal aero + 303....must'a been hilly. That's some Contador-Eeque thinking!

mike868y

Is that the dude who works for specialized?

hack

Thats the right team and I think they have a couple guys that work for Specialized.

Wylde06

All this wheel talk makes me want to get a set of deep carbon wheels. I think I need a new frame first though.

canuckbelle

I eventually went with a Wahoo Kickr. Glad to be sponsored by a bike store to get discounts.

hubcyclist

Price check, aisle 8, good deal for a year old bike? (consider that I currently ride a 20 year old bike with 8-speed 105!) 2014 Specialized Allez Elite in perfect condition I admit I'm a sucker for this color