globecanvas

Maybe mine is from an older model year or something, but on my Toupe saddle, those pointless loops on the back of the saddle are attached with screws on the underside and come right off. If yours is the same you could save a few more grams.

Ygduf

it's a solid layup. no connectors

spectastic

those who have experience with basalt braking surface... is it normal to have a rough spot in the braking surface that provides more braking than the rest of the wheel? I don't notice it when racing, but when I'm slowing at a traffic light, I can feel the lump.. normal or no?

spectastic

btw. regretting getting carbon training wheels. these hills will be eating up the track like crazy. probably getting aluminum trainers

shovelhd

Not normal. Hopefully it's a tension issue and not a bad rim.

No issues whatsoever with mine. The key, as with all carbon rim brake rims, is to use the proper pads, and keep the braking surfaces clean.

tetonrider

wow....what kind of wheels did you get?

i ride in the mountains all the time and have had carbon clinchers for 6 years now.....no sign of wear on the brake tracks.

seems unusual.

Ygduf

agree. not normal. even the old ****ty clincher rims didn't wear out as much as they were just too soft

Doge

Was hanging at Princeton [name dropping] boat house yesterday and coach is a cycling/athletic geek. He brought up some test they, Russians etc. are doing testing lactic acid moles/?? just remembering 6-20 or something (which is why I'm posting) to basically determine the sustainable peak levels an athlete can hold. So someone at 95% max HR at 8-9 moles/? is not feeling it nearly as bad as the one at 20 moles/?? - at 95%. Basically they are selecting off of lactic acid levels.
So anyone know much about this?

Ygduf

Ygduf

At Stanford our kids to 6.022 * 10[SUP]23[/SUP] reps

Doge

Ahh moles and Avogadro - cute. But real question. Guess I should discuss hops in IPA.
Seems some think lactic acid is a food. Others think it is a limiter. Pretty clear to me the best universities in the nation - don't really know.
I have not seen the science found in cycling found elsewhere. And Stanford kids are not on the rowing charts / real rowing - although not based on popularity is ... W/kg - lightweight. Other than a year of learning skill and a deeper knee bend (and cycling race craft - no small deal) , they are the same.

tetonrider

some people will use "moles" as shorthand, but 4mmol/L is generally regarded as lactate threshold.

however, just like "95% of 20' power" is an approximation, so, too, is blood lactate. everything i've read and been taught by those-in-the-know is that what one is really looking for is the slope change in measured blood lactate. it's beyond what i have time to type, but there are 2 key bends in the chart which are dead giveaways (esp the 2nd one) where one has exceeded their lactate threshold.

now, is blood lactate threshold? not necessarily. some people reach their steady-state @ 3.5mmol/L and others are higher -- and some people can suffer more than others, so the meaning of it may have even less relevance in practice/on the bike. some bodies do a better job clearing (or are trained to clear) lactate faster or can do more work at higher levels. if they are cleaning lactate as fast as it is accumulating, then that is pretty much LT.

as for what this coach who was citing 'what the russians are doing', i have no idea.

i haven't seen a ton of studies at higher levels, but i did see some LT testing results for pro riders and it was astonishing what they could sustain (both power and lactate levels).

spectastic

well it's not wear that I'm seeing so much as wear that I'm anticipating.. the noise between the carbon and brake pads, that zippy sound, makes me shudder, almost like a guy's scrubbing his keys on the hood of my car. Based on your guys' comments, it seems like unfounded hyperbole, but I just don't want to put any wear on my precious carbon rims. but I am using the brake pads that came with the rims.

ever seen that comic that tries to hypothesize a scenario where there's a mole of moles? https://what-if.xkcd.com/4/

Doge

I'd really like to know more. Whatever links you have would be appreciated. A 6 min rowing event is very different than a 3+ hour cycling event, although I would expect the principles to be the same with regard to the human engine.
"3.5mmol/L and others are higher" - I was hearing much higher numbers for the rowers. Son,a rowing newbie, was putting out the highest HR I've seen from him - way above cycling. So while similar - rowing is different than cycling. Princeton coach said he was near 20 (mmol/L?), while the best were under 10. Higher was worse. As I've been somewhat aware/close to the cycling, soccer elites, I don't want to over play what the rowers are doing (the other two are professional sports), but it was new to me and there is clearly lots of money in these rower sponsors there to figure it all out.

Ygduf

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]150[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.43[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]175[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.97[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]200[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.71[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]225[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.13[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]250[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.79[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]275[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]300[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.18[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]325[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.18[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]350[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6.51[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]375[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]9.12[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]400[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.62[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

that was my chart from 2010 when I had ~1.5 years of riding and no real training other than some long rides. I think if someone is spiking to 20mmol/l they are nearer to failure than someone who is at half that, given the distribution that 1 hour threshold plateaus much lower, as TR said. The numbers tend to spike parabolically upward once you exceed threshold.

tetonrider

what rims are these?

IMO, carbon clinchers are one area worth spending the $$ as the rim has the important job of holding the tire in place. i've seen too many warped brake tracks....

also, are you using the pads recommended by your manufacturer? i know people like to experiment, but most manufacturers have a whitelist of approved pads. some rims are harder than others, and using a hard pad with a soft rim can initially provide a great experience but can result in excessive wear.

that said, i don't really see people wearing out brake tracks in normal road conditions. muddy CX races? different story.

tetonrider

guessing you may be talking about a sample taken for a shorter, more violent effort. i'd bet there is some standard test (distance) in rowing.

for LT, higher is better IF (and only if) someone is really looking at the rate of change. IME, many so-called lab testing facilities really just look for power at ~4mmol/L and call it good.

above LT (and for whatever test they use), i have no idea if higher is better. i'm guessing it could represent a measure of capability (future) or capacity to suffer if coupled with a *time* over whatever distance they test, but i'm just guessing.

spectastic

they're dengfu. they came with brake pads, but I'll probably switch over to swiss stop when these wear out.

grolby

2,000 meters. Though for testing an ergometer would be used, and I suspect there's a similar issue in replicating distance traveled as on a rear wheel trainer.

hubcyclist

Starting to think about new tires, have had conti ultra sports on (bottom of the barrel) this past year. Have had good luck as far as not getting flats, but I want to move to something with a better balance of performance and durability. Would just going with a mid range conti suffice? Or should I not really worry about performance unless I'm going with a high end clincher specifically for racing?

cmh

It sounds like the did the test on an erogometer and they are looking for the lowest lactate build up at a particular power output. It makes sense that most are over LT for a 6 min. effort.

TheKillerPenguin

I notice a real difference between Ultras and GP4000sIIs. They absolutely roll better and aren't any worse than the ultras as far as durability goes. They only tend to flat on me when they're near the end of their life cycle, which is around 2500 miles or so for a rear.

But, it's the off season, and flatting when it is cold out sucks. I'm currently riding wire bead gatorskins, you might want to look at gp4000 all seasons as my understanding is that they're just about as durable as gatorskins but are less harsh.

globecanvas

I run GP 4 seasons 28s on my winter bike, and on the single speed, and IMO they are great tires.

Doge

Yes. @tetonrider For a given individual if they peaked power at X lactate level, the idea would be to get them to peak at X + Y - so higher means better - for that person.
But in selecting who has the most potential upside, they pick those with the lowest lactate buildup at peak power.

For rowing the "standards" are max watts (10 strokes or so), 500m split, 2K erg test and 6K erg test. The 2K is the college SAT equivalent. A lightweight recruitable score is 6:35, about 6:00 for an open class rower.

What rowing has shown me, at least for my son, if that cycling does not max the cardio system like rowing. In cycling my son has a 206max HR and will finish a well executed TT about 204 for 30 seconds. In rowing he sits at 205 for 2-3 min and about 200 for 4 min. He has not done anything like that in cycling as his legs just don't require that. I expect a VO2 test on an erg would yield a higher number than on the bike. My conclusion is for cycling he can build more leg mass. I think feeding and moving that extra mass may be detrimental for a hilly or long RR, but for a flat TT, or short finish there is cardio to support more massive legs.
I also just came across a new test claims Lactate is fuel. I have to balance that equation and see how that works. Lactate ? the forgotten fuel! - Chatham - 2008 - The Journal of Physiology - Wiley Online Library

Anyway I think there is some application to the cycling TT here.

revchuck 

Another tire that many of us have had good luck with is the Michelin Pro4 Endurance. Really good on flat protection, I typically get ~3k miles on the rear, and they stick well enough to race on. The 23mm version runs true to size, but the 25mm version runs 27+mm, even on 19mm rims.

Something else to consider, especially if you're not going to buy online, is the Specialized Roubaix. I don't have any experience with them, but they compete with the P4E and the MSRP is $40. Another tire that did well in VeloNews' review of endurance tires a couple months back is the Clément Strada LGG, with an MSRP of $50.