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  1. #51
    cmh
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    Sky should have brought Wiggins.

  2. #52
    Senior Member grolby's Avatar
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    I thought Wiggins showed he deserved a place on the team, as far as his form goes, but he wouldn't have been much help for Froome today and would not have been a realistic contender for the GC in this Tour, even as a backup. Porte is their guy, now. Of course, he's a big question mark as well.

  3. #53
    Arrogant Roadie Punk save10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by echappist View Post
    indeed

    he may be one of the more complete GC riders of his generation (similar to Cuddles). The man did podium in MSR and LBL
    poor Talansky was with him in the final 30km, but he followed a Lotto rider into the mud and lost contact. might have been a big day for him as well

  4. #54
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Ygduf's Avatar
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    I just like stages that have winners with my style of riding. Boom!

    Also, coincidentally awesome name.

    twitter.com/ygduf
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  5. #55
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grolby View Post
    I thought Wiggins showed he deserved a place on the team, as far as his form goes, but he wouldn't have been much help for Froome today
    He would have thrown himself under Froome before each crash to cushion the blow.

    He's that kind of guy.

  6. #56
    Senior Member Wylde06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
    Also, coincidentally awesome name.
    That may or may not be the only reason I picked him for my velogames team.

  7. #57
    Senior Member jsutkeepspining's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmh View Post
    Sky should have brought Wiggins.
    meh, what would he have done? gotten 5th? Been a ***** and complain nonstop? Wiggo doesn't have the form right now to compete in this tour, especially with how contador and nibali are going right now.
    cat 1-o-meter: wtf am i doing??????
    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    You're not dumb. You're just less smart.

  8. #58
    cmh
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsutkeepspining View Post
    meh, what would he have done? gotten 5th? Been a ***** and complain nonstop? Wiggo doesn't have the form right now to compete in this tour, especially with how contador and nibali are going right now.
    He would have gotten through todays stage upright and with the leaders and therefore been in contention for a podium spot... but yeah his spring sucked.

  9. #59
    cmh
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    He would have thrown himself under Froome before each crash to cushion the blow.

    He's that kind of guy.
    lol. Yeah, so maybe they were right to not bring Wiggins, but it was my first thought when I saw today's results.

  10. #60
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thechemist View Post
    100% agree with cancellera on neutralizing.
    Don't agree. Stage was hard and miserable, but not any more dangerous than any other race in Europe. That's the only reason you should neutralize, not because it might upset the formula of "wait for the time trial or the mountains to really race"

    These guys race in the rain all the time. That's what played into today, though Froome crashed on a straight, flat road two days in a row, so it's hard to point at the rain or cobbles creating bad luck or inattention.

    They took the two iffy cobble sections out and most of the damage on what was left were in a couple of turns where guys crash anyway in P-R, wet or dry.

    Nibali got all that time today because they (Astana) raced with balls, tactics, and skill. Classic Vinokourov.

  11. #61
    Senior Member grolby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    Nibali got all that time today because they (Astana) raced with balls, tactics, and skill. Classic Vinokourov.
    Nibali and Astana raced from the front. Like you're supposed to. Hats off to them, Nibali earned every second of time he gained over the rest of the GC contenders.

  12. #62
    Senior Member hack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    Don't agree. Stage was hard and miserable, but not any more dangerous than any other race in Europe. That's the only reason you should neutralize, not because it might upset the formula of "wait for the time trial or the mountains to really race"

    These guys race in the rain all the time. That's what played into today, though Froome crashed on a straight, flat road two days in a row, so it's hard to point at the rain or cobbles creating bad luck or inattention.

    They took the two iffy cobble sections out and most of the damage on what was left were in a couple of turns where guys crash anyway in P-R, wet or dry.

    Nibali got all that time today because they (Astana) raced with balls, tactics, and skill. Classic Vinokourov.
    I thought Cancellara's comments re: neutralizing was that it shouldn't be neutralized because it is essentially just another stage. Granted, it's a tough one that didn't favor the GC climber mold, but the hillier stages aren't neutralized when they're tough for the sprinter/classics guys.

    With all that, I thought it was a great stage, very tough, but tested different skill sets other than putting your head down and testing watts/kg. It's too bad Froome went down, but I suspect he had some more serious lingering pain from yesterday's crash and the crashes today just pushed him over limit (physically and mentally). At the end of the day, that's racing. I haven't heard discussions from the GC about eliminating sprint finishes after Cavendish went down. They just seemed to go along with the "that's racing" group.
    Cat 2 upgrade status: never

  13. #63
    RustyTainte substructure's Avatar
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    Get out da way!


  14. #64
    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thechemist View Post
    Whaaa?? This has been such an awesome tour so far for the yellow. I also wonder if kittel going down will make things better/more interesting for the sprints.

    Nibali has always been a favorite of mine so I am pretty pleased with this tour but I still think it is going to be a very close race. 100% agree with cancellera on neutralizing.
    only when it's favorable for him. people somehow thinks the guy is more "noble" than others.

    lest you forget, last time they hit the cobbles in 2010, he neutralized the previous stage, saying it was "dangerous." Then on the real dangerous stage (with the cobbles), he shredded the peloton, dragging Andy to the front. There was carnage, but no talks of neutralizing. the guy is a bike racer, not a saint

    PS. don't disagree with Vinokurtov or else Vinokurtov doles out punishment
    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    Don't agree. Stage was hard and miserable, but not any more dangerous than any other race in Europe. That's the only reason you should neutralize, not because it might upset the formula of "wait for the time trial or the mountains to really race"

    These guys race in the rain all the time. That's what played into today, though Froome crashed on a straight, flat road two days in a row, so it's hard to point at the rain or cobbles creating bad luck or inattention.

    They took the two iffy cobble sections out and most of the damage on what was left were in a couple of turns where guys crash anyway in P-R, wet or dry.

    Nibali got all that time today because they (Astana) raced with balls, tactics, and skill. Classic Vinokourov.
    does Vinokurtov agree with Vinokourov?

    love him or hate him, Vino is like a younger Bjarnes Riis.

  15. #65
    Senior Member Inquisitor.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wylde06 View Post
    That may or may not be the only reason I picked him for my velogames team.
    I picked Lars Boom for my team after watching footage of him racing in a breakaway. I had a feeling he was the type of rider that could win stages if the conditions were right. He's a strong rider that seems to instinctively know the right time to attack.

  16. #66
    In the Pain Cave thechemist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hack View Post
    I thought Cancellara's comments re: neutralizing was that it shouldn't be neutralized because it is essentially just another stage. Granted, it's a tough one that didn't favor the GC climber mold, but the hillier stages aren't neutralized when they're tough for the sprinter/classics guys.

    With all that, I thought it was a great stage, very tough, but tested different skill sets other than putting your head down and testing watts/kg. It's too bad Froome went down, but I suspect he had some more serious lingering pain from yesterday's crash and the crashes today just pushed him over limit (physically and mentally). At the end of the day, that's racing. I haven't heard discussions from the GC about eliminating sprint finishes after Cavendish went down. They just seemed to go along with the "that's racing" group.
    yup. that is what I was getting at in less and more useless words.

  17. #67
    These Guys Eat Oreos Creatre's Avatar
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    I almost always pick Boom for my fantasy teams because he's such a beast. But he's never gotten me any points so I didn't pick him this year. :|

    I thought the stage was fantastic. The majority of the carnage happened on normal roads. Nothing more dangerous about it than any other wet day except people were nervous. It's part of bike racing that it can rain. And it just happened to rain on the day with the cobbles to setup an epic day. It was great to watch, and I bet it was a blast to ride (if you survived the day unscathed).
    Category 2 | | Velogames BikeForums Leagues: 1st - 2012 Veulta, 1st - 2011 Vuelta, 2nd - 2013 Vuelta, 3rd - 2012 Giro, 4th - 2012 TdF

  18. #68
    Super Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by substructure View Post
    Get out da way!

    When I started racing there were way fewer efforts at controlling spectators etc. People wandered on the course all the time. My teammates told me to aim at them while I hollered. If you tried to get around them they'd jump in your way, like if you try to go around someone in a hallway. If you aimed at them then as long as they moved you'd miss them.
    "...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creatre View Post
    I thought the stage was fantastic. The majority of the carnage happened on normal roads. Nothing more dangerous about it than any other wet day except people were nervous. It's part of bike racing that it can rain. And it just happened to rain on the day with the cobbles to setup an epic day. It was great to watch, and I bet it was a blast to ride (if you survived the day unscathed).
    +1

    I watched the guys at the front, they looked like they were totally in their element, even with the dabs and stuff. The ones at the back, not so much. I used to revel in those kind of conditions, searching out the dirt roads near my house whenever it rained. Now I get on the trainer but hey, I used to be young at heart. Heh.

    "...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson

  20. #70
    gmt Grumpy McTrumpy's Avatar
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    All it took for Cancellara to change his tune was rain.

    Fabian Cancellara (Trek Factory Racing), winner of 8 stages in the Tour, three-time winner of Paris-Roubaix: “The race was a mess. When I hear in the radio what was happening just with our riders, I can imagine what must be happening with the others – in my opinion this does not have a place in a Grand Tour. It was completely different than in April because the field is so different. Also the wet roads made it very dangerous – the whole course was now dangerous… Rasty [Gregory Rast] helped me a lot. The problem was there was always a gap because someone was tired, or slipped a bit, and you could not pass him on the cobbles. When the three Astanas and Boom went, this is what happened. Also, on wet cobbles it is very different, you cannot use a high cadence like when it’s dry, how I like to do… It was already a situation where I was pulling, and when they went everyone was looking at me and Peter [Sagan] to do the work. Just me and Peter could not make the difference, so I had to calculate my energy. I did not want to pull, pull, pull and then the others pass me at the end, so I had to manage myself and play a bit or otherwise I would have been even more behind. Hey, chapeau to Astana who did a fantastic ride – they honored the yellow jersey.”
    Read more at Cobblestone chaos: The Tour peloton reacts to stage 5 crashes - VeloNews.com
    I agree that it was very dramatic, but I was at my limit of tolerance and starting to feel queasy. Maybe I have personally crashed too many times, but I don't care much for watching them. Yesterday's stage was mainly about luck. Good luck for the winners, bad luck for a lot more. Trial By Crash... not my favorite kind of racing.

  21. #71
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    it didnt look that different to me than a strade bianchi (probably spelled wrong) stage in the giro a few years ago when evans won the stage over vino, and nibali was in pink but crashed early and lost time (at least I think evans won). easily one of the most exciting days of GT racing I can recall. yesterday was similar. absolutely exhilarating to watch.

    i've found cancellara to be annoying for a long time. he's incredible on the bike, he's sparatcus, he's a rock star, but he's also an ungracious winner (also called a poor loser - see flanders where nyuns won) and changes his tune on neutralizing races whenever it suits him.

    yesterday he lost. accept it and move on.

  22. #72
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    Funny, the thing that made me queazy is a bit more than three hour century. On cobbles. In the rain. Yep. Good thing the sport got cleaned up.

  23. #73
    Senior Member grolby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy View Post
    I agree that it was very dramatic, but I was at my limit of tolerance and starting to feel queasy. Maybe I have personally crashed too many times, but I don't care much for watching them. Yesterday's stage was mainly about luck. Good luck for the winners, bad luck for a lot more. Trial By Crash... not my favorite kind of racing.
    I strongly disagree that it was about luck. Bike racing is about skill, not just power, and the guys at the front of the race were riding skillfully. Respectfully, I think your reaction may have more to do with seeing crashes in those conditions rather than the crashing per se; as it happened, the only DNF was Froome. There were crashes, sure, but fewer serious injuries than there had been the previous days, when both Greg Hendersen and Andy Schleck smashed their knees. This Tour has actually been quite low on crashes up to this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by MDcatV View Post
    i've found cancellara to be annoying for a long time. he's incredible on the bike, he's sparatcus, he's a rock star, but he's also an ungracious winner (also called a poor loser - see flanders where nyuns won) and changes his tune on neutralizing races whenever it suits him.
    Cancellara has had a tendency to get petulant when people ride against him, and it really gets under my skin. Flanders and Roubaix in 2011 both saw him whining about guys marking him out. You're a big winner, dude! You're going to get marked Guys marked Merckx like crazy, but he didn't whine, he raced his bike and smashed them. And when he lost, he lost. Being a great champion means riding against guys who are riding to make you lose, and winning anyway. Cancellara's problem was that he had one trick, and he expected to be allowed to keep using it forever. His 2013 P-R win was his best, IMO, because he did something different and rode smart rather than just trying to ride everyone off his wheel at 50k to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    Funny, the thing that made me queazy is a bit more than three hour century. On cobbles. In the rain. Yep. Good thing the sport got cleaned up.
    FWIW, there was apparently a very strong tailwind during the stage. Power data would be illuminating.

  24. #74
    **** that mattm's Avatar
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    yesterday's stage was great! yes it was hard, and dangerous, but the cobbles had little to do with that.

    the first week of the tour is often crashy, and most of the crashes were just due to rain.

    sad to see froome drop out, but it makes for a more dynamic race.

    todays stage sucked, b/c iceman didnt win.
    cat 1.

    blog

  25. #75
    Senior Member ShutUpLegs's Avatar
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    Sagan should have won todays stage, but looks like another tactic mistake. Should have waited instead of responding to GvA.

    On another note, what the crap was BMC doing attacking and drilling it on the front while Tejay is off the back gutting himself to catch back on?!?!?
    BLOG --> http://goingoffthefront.blogspot.com/

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