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Old 03-28-05, 11:32 PM   #1
berny
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Track bikes

What's the reason behind the horizontal drops on track bikes? Tradition or is it for quicker wheel changes and if so when?
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Old 03-28-05, 11:44 PM   #2
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because there's no derailleur (with springs in it) to control the chain tension, you've gotta pull and hold the wheel back along the drops while you tighten the nuts to get the correct tension.

Also, it's common for trackies to regularly change the cog, which obviously alters the chain tension, so you can't really choose one gear, then "set and forget". So, even if you only ever used one cog, it would be virtually impossible to get the chain length & tension exactly right for a vertical dropout.

I haven't ridden a track bike for a long time, but, because there's no derailleur constantly moving on the springs to control perfection tension, track bikes are nowhere near as smooth as a road bike.

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Old 03-29-05, 12:23 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by 531Aussie
I haven't ridden a track bike for a long time, but, because there's no derailleur constantly moving on the springs to control perfection tension, track bikes are nowhere near as smooth as a road bike.
how long has it been? i won't get all philosophical on you, but the drivetrain on a well set up track bike is a thing of beauty. it's so simple, runs so smoothly, and is so efficient.
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Old 03-29-05, 12:29 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by 531Aussie
because there's no derailleur (with springs in it) to control the chain tension, you've gotta pull and hold the wheel back along the drops while you tighten the nuts to get the correct tension.

Also, it's common for trackies to regularly change the cog, which obviously alters the chain tension, so you can't really choose one gear, then "set and forget". So, even if you only ever used one cog, it would be virtually impossible to get the chain lengeth exactly right for a vertical dropout.

I haven't ridden a track bike for a long time, but, because there's no derailleur constantly moving on the springs to control perfection tension, track bikes are nowhere near as smooth as a road bike.
Ok I see the logic although many older road bikes have screw adjustment on the trad. dropout for chain adjustment which I guess makes them suitable.
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Old 03-29-05, 12:33 AM   #5
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how long has it been? i won't get all philosophical on you, but the drivetrain on a well set up track bike is a thing of beauty. it's so simple, runs so smoothly, and is so efficient.
10 years.

have things changed?

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Old 03-29-05, 08:01 AM   #6
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You just need to make sure you don't put too much tension on the chain and then it's as smooth as silk. Too much tension stresses the hub bearings and you can feel it. Also chain rings are typically not perfectly round so if there is not a slight bit of slack in the chain then on that out of round part of the stroke you feel it. My general rule is to tighten the chain just enough so that you cannot pull it off the chain ring with your fingers or by trying to get it off by rotating the cranks with the chain askew.
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Old 03-29-05, 12:39 PM   #7
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I agree wholeheartedly that there's nothing sweeter than the smooth, simple feel of a track bike.

We used to drive 5 hours to Indy just to race for an hour. Now we have one within a mile of my house.

What I can't understand is all these people who claim to be ga-ga over cycling but refuse to try riding on a velodrome. Their loss.
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Old 03-29-05, 02:26 PM   #8
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Agree, and it isn't off topic since we are discussing Track Bikes. All the youngsters out there posting on how to get fast, learn tactics, ect, look no further than the velodrome. You'll learn more in one nights racing than in a month of Criteriums. And for those of you who think nothing on 2 wheels can intimidate you try stokin a Track Tandem!
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Old 03-29-05, 03:35 PM   #9
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Some singlespeed frames are now made with vertical drop-outs and an eccentric BB (like in a tandem). This removes the risk of pulling the rear wheel over under load, whilst affording adequate- and precise-adjustment of chain tension.
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Old 03-29-05, 05:28 PM   #10
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I'm definitely going to ride/race track. At 63 I don't have a lot of time to do all the stuff I want to do but I'm going to fit track racing in there. Now I just need to find a suitable bike at a reasonable price. What should I look for, complete bike or frame....? I'm leaning toward a vintage/vet. rebuild to make a statement. Do I need track cranks, chainwheel? What wheels? Why raised hub flanges? Steel bars? Carbon forks? What rear hub? Tyres? Any assistance would be great, thanks.
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Old 03-30-05, 06:53 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Voodoo76
Agree, and it isn't off topic since we are discussing Track Bikes. All the youngsters out there posting on how to get fast, learn tactics, ect, look no further than the velodrome. You'll learn more in one nights racing than in a month of Criteriums.
Never a truer word said.
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Old 03-30-05, 07:27 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by berny
I'm definitely going to ride/race track. At 63 I don't have a lot of time to do all the stuff I want to do but I'm going to fit track racing in there. Now I just need to find a suitable bike at a reasonable price. What should I look for, complete bike or frame....? I'm leaning toward a vintage/vet. rebuild to make a statement. Do I need track cranks, chainwheel? What wheels? Why raised hub flanges? Steel bars? Carbon forks? What rear hub? Tyres? Any assistance would be great, thanks.
Berny,

Go for a complete Bike. A number of good basic bikes available, Fuji, Bianchi, ect. (my "vintage" was a beautifull Guerchiotti with CRecord Pista). That would take care of all of the above choices for you. Bike, 48T & 49T Chainrings, 14, 15, 16T Cogs, Whip, and you are good to go.
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Old 03-30-05, 08:51 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EventServices
I agree wholeheartedly that there's nothing sweeter than the smooth, simple feel of a track bike.

We used to drive 5 hours to Indy just to race for an hour. Now we have one within a mile of my house.

What I can't understand is all these people who claim to be ga-ga over cycling but refuse to try riding on a velodrome. Their loss.
I don't know about refuse to ride one. Consider yourself lucky that you have one one mile from your house or even 5 hours for that matter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by berny
I'm definitely going to ride/race track. At 63 I don't have a lot of time to do all the stuff I want to do but I'm going to fit track racing in there. Now I just need to find a suitable bike at a reasonable price. What should I look for, complete bike or frame....? I'm leaning toward a vintage/vet. rebuild to make a statement. Do I need track cranks, chainwheel? What wheels? Why raised hub flanges? Steel bars? Carbon forks? What rear hub? Tyres? Any assistance would be great, thanks.
When you are ready to build check out the fixed gear forum. There is a lot of info and people willing to help. The cool thing I've found about track bikes aside from the modern high tech is that even an old one is up to date and track worthy.
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Old 03-30-05, 08:59 AM   #14
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What I can't understand is all these people who claim to be ga-ga over cycling but refuse to try riding on a velodrome. Their loss.
I agree. I think it's because it's harder. The average scratch race is a much hotter pace than a criterium at the same category (it's obviously heaps shorter), so people don't like having their fitness exposed when they get dropped, even when they're wheel-sucking. I suppose they also have to get an extra bike, etc.

When I first rocked up to the velodrome to race in 1986, I didn't even know what a criterium was. This guy tells me that road racing is more popular, and heaps of guys race the criteriums. I said: "what's a criterium, and where are they?". I get to criterium circuit and see a about 250 guys rolling around; I couldn't believe why all these people weren't at the velodrome the previous Saturday.

I was lucky enough to grow up 2.7 miles form a concrete velodrome, and I spent A LOT of time there, but you've gotta admit it's pretty boring to train on: 'round and 'round and 'round we go, where we stop, nobody knows.

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Old 03-30-05, 09:57 AM   #15
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I agree. I think it's because it's harder. but you've gotta admit it's pretty boring to train on: 'round and 'round and 'round we go, where stop, nobody knows.
Till your first Madison
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Old 03-30-05, 11:14 AM   #16
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Track racing is like Liquid Prell Shampoo. It's concentrated.
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Old 03-30-05, 04:14 PM   #17
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While we're (not where) on the subject, I also can't understand for the life of me why more spectators don't go to the vel., and more specifically why the organisers don't promote the events to attract spectators here in Oz anyway. There seems to be a peculiar resistance to do this for reasons I cannot fathom. As I understand it, it's something to do with tradition, old school mind sets, yada yada yada......
Very strange.
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Old 03-30-05, 07:48 PM   #18
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While we're (not where) on the subject, I also can't understand for the life of me why more spectators don't go to the vel., and more specifically why the organisers don't promote the events to attract spectators here in Oz anyway. There seems to be a peculiar resistance to do this for reasons I cannot fathom. As I understand it, it's something to do with tradition, old school mind sets, yada yada yada......
Very strange.
You get 15000 at Bendigo, 5000 at Leongatha, 5000-10000 at Devonport, and they can't find 4500 to fill Vodaphone arena!!!!!
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Old 03-31-05, 05:41 AM   #19
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Why do they used fixed gear for track, why not singlespeed?
Does anyone race on the velodrome with an all singlespeed comp.
I'm guessing you can't use singlespeed when everyone else is using fixed.
Also, would a road bike with many gears, be able to beat a track bike on a velodrome, if they were both top of the range bikes.
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Old 03-31-05, 06:26 AM   #20
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on the same terrain, using the same gear ratio a fixed wheel will be quicker and easier than a geared bike.
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Old 03-31-05, 06:38 AM   #21
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berny - track complete bikes are usually harder to get as most guys like to keep components as they tend to get very specialized and hards to get, like cranks, hubs, wheels etc. Trackies LOVE their components even more than roadies.

If you can get a complete, go for it, it'll be much cheaper in the end.

Personally I got a complete and upgraded to a tubular wheelset because I love tubies. Most guys run clinchers though as singles cost a bunch of $$$.

You can make up cranks etc from aset you have lying around but most real track stuff is run at a 1/8" pitch chain and rings so it's usually not too easy to get or very compatible with road cranks. The BCD for popular track cranks is either 135 or 144 which is too big for regular road rings.

Bars - get whatever, steel is not necessary unless you are a huge hunking sprinter type guy. i.e. Sean Eadie.

Anything carbon will crack in a flash if you stack, I'd stay away from it unless you are going for the Master Pursuit title at Nationals.

Let me now if you need more info, be glad to help out. Either here or on the "other" forum
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Old 03-31-05, 03:44 PM   #22
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berny - track complete bikes are usually harder to get as most guys like to keep components as they tend to get very specialized and hards to get, like cranks, hubs, wheels etc. Trackies LOVE their components even more than roadies.

If you can get a complete, go for it, it'll be much cheaper in the end.

Personally I got a complete and upgraded to a tubular wheelset because I love tubies. Most guys run clinchers though as singles cost a bunch of $$$.

You can make up cranks etc from aset you have lying around but most real track stuff is run at a 1/8" pitch chain and rings so it's usually not too easy to get or very compatible with road cranks. The BCD for popular track cranks is either 135 or 144 which is too big for regular road rings.

Bars - get whatever, steel is not necessary unless you are a huge hunking sprinter type guy. i.e. Sean Eadie.

Anything carbon will crack in a flash if you stack, I'd stay away from it unless you are going for the Master Pursuit title at Nationals.

Let me now if you need more info, be glad to help out. Either here or on the "other" forum
I saw a bike at the Masters Nats last week. A guy had a small display of road and this one track bike. I thought it was a Teschner but I think now it may have been something else as all my attempts to track it down have been fruitless. He wanted $999 for it and said he had all sizes available althouth the one he had there was my size (54). Should have done the business.
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Old 03-31-05, 07:49 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by EventServices
I agree wholeheartedly that there's nothing sweeter than the smooth, simple feel of a track bike.

We used to drive 5 hours to Indy just to race for an hour. Now we have one within a mile of my house.

What I can't understand is all these people who claim to be ga-ga over cycling but refuse to try riding on a velodrome. Their loss.

Anyone within a drive of the Detroit Metro Area.....






Bloomer Park eh? I love that track First Velodrome I ever rode on. I'm sure you know about Rob Good's indoor track being built in Ontario? And you probably know my training parter down here in GA, Paul Jaqua?

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Old 03-31-05, 09:38 PM   #24
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Till your first Madison
Ever seen an elimination race?(Miss and Out)
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Old 03-31-05, 10:09 PM   #25
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Ever seen an elimination race?(Miss and Out)
yeah, they're dangerous, with 20 guys trying to cross the line at once.
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