So are the days of our lives...
05-05-15, 10:52 AM
#8476
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however, i really don't think you have a leg to stand on under any circumstances that a chargeback for an event that says "no refunds" (which is basically all of them for pre-reg...it is the rare one that does) is anything other than lame.
you may not like the way CRCA does business (no refunds), but imposing your will or suggesting others do it via a false chargeback (it'll probably go through, but it is still wrong) is not cool. talk to the promoter, plead your case, tell others about lame behavior, organize a group of racers so that you have one voice.......but chargeback? no.
05-05-15, 11:01 AM
#8477
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05-05-15, 11:01 AM
#8478
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yep--my buddy acknowledged that he was not owed the $5--that it would have been out of the kindness of the promoter (and out of his own pocket). the promoter made his decision to take the hardline (he's entitled to it, of course), and my friend accepted the decision. it was a $5 lesson to never race one of this guy's events again (or wait until the day-of).
i have a friend who runs an registration site that is an alternative to bikereg. i talked to him about the processing fees. like you, he said that the promoters have the choice of how to present the processing fee. of course the racers ALWAYS pay for it. i'd personally prefer to see an event listed as $43 instead of $40....but oh yeah here is a $3 fee at the end of the process.
we had all the talk about battenkill a few weeks ago (and i defended dieter's right to charge whatever he thought was fair; the racers could decide to pay or not). when i actually registered (last day of pre-reg), i went through the process, paid (of course) the added processing fee, but i was shocked that i was forced to add the $3/race USAC insurance fee. i heard a bunch of explanations about this, but telling me the event is $100 and then adding the (mandatory) insurance as a separate add-on item was annoying. just tell me $103.
kind of like when i showed up at a hotel a few years ago and saw that i had been charged $15/day for "complimentary services". (no $h!t...that is really what it was caled.) i get why they do it, but it bums me out when they do.
i have a friend who runs an registration site that is an alternative to bikereg. i talked to him about the processing fees. like you, he said that the promoters have the choice of how to present the processing fee. of course the racers ALWAYS pay for it. i'd personally prefer to see an event listed as $43 instead of $40....but oh yeah here is a $3 fee at the end of the process.
we had all the talk about battenkill a few weeks ago (and i defended dieter's right to charge whatever he thought was fair; the racers could decide to pay or not). when i actually registered (last day of pre-reg), i went through the process, paid (of course) the added processing fee, but i was shocked that i was forced to add the $3/race USAC insurance fee. i heard a bunch of explanations about this, but telling me the event is $100 and then adding the (mandatory) insurance as a separate add-on item was annoying. just tell me $103.
kind of like when i showed up at a hotel a few years ago and saw that i had been charged $15/day for "complimentary services". (no $h!t...that is really what it was caled.) i get why they do it, but it bums me out when they do.
The worst though is the utility company ********. They tell you the cable (or electric or sewer or whatever) bill will be X but then there are line fees, special taxes, 911 fees, I'm gonna make this up just because I know you'll bend over and take it up the ass fees until your bill is 50-100% more than the "special promotional rate" they quote you. Just be honest with me. I know you've got a monopoly and I don't have any other choice, so tell me how much I'm going to pay like a man rather than trying to hide it in all these little fees.
__________________
Bikes: 1996 Eddy Merckx Titanium EX, 1989/90 Colnago Super(issimo?) Piu(?),1990 Concorde Aquila(hit by car while riding), others in build queue "when I get the time"
Bikes: 1996 Eddy Merckx Titanium EX, 1989/90 Colnago Super(issimo?) Piu(?),
05-05-15, 11:18 AM
#8479
Senior Member
One thing about chargeback is I think that BikeReg would be hit with it, no? The promoter doesn't collect the credit card money, BikeReg does. For example I never see a credit card slip for anyone that registers for my races, I just get a check from BikeReg.
Also with pre-reg vs day of I kept the difference about the same. I think it's about $3 more to do day-of, total cost, but for me as the promoter it's $6 more. If the costs are a wash then I prefer to do day-of so the promoter makes more money. I figure BikeReg has made dough of of me off my races, I can give some of what I pay in fees to the (other) promoters.
Finally, as a tip to BikeReg, they only collect on payments. If something is free there is no fee. I've done some free-to-participate reg things and it's totally free, no BikeReg fees or anything.
Also with pre-reg vs day of I kept the difference about the same. I think it's about $3 more to do day-of, total cost, but for me as the promoter it's $6 more. If the costs are a wash then I prefer to do day-of so the promoter makes more money. I figure BikeReg has made dough of of me off my races, I can give some of what I pay in fees to the (other) promoters.
Finally, as a tip to BikeReg, they only collect on payments. If something is free there is no fee. I've done some free-to-participate reg things and it's totally free, no BikeReg fees or anything.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
05-05-15, 11:21 AM
#8480
Senior Member
I grew up in Europe where all prices include sales tax. When I first bought stuff here I thought the stores were trying to rip me off. $3.23??? It's clearly marked $2.99!
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
05-05-15, 11:23 AM
#8481
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One thing about chargeback is I think that BikeReg would be hit with it, no? The promoter doesn't collect the credit card money, BikeReg does. For example I never see a credit card slip for anyone that registers for my races, I just get a check from BikeReg.
Also with pre-reg vs day of I kept the difference about the same. I think it's about $3 more to do day-of, total cost, but for me as the promoter it's $6 more. If the costs are a wash then I prefer to do day-of so the promoter makes more money. I figure BikeReg has made dough of of me off my races, I can give some of what I pay in fees to the (other) promoters.
Finally, as a tip to BikeReg, they only collect on payments. If something is free there is no fee. I've done some free-to-participate reg things and it's totally free, no BikeReg fees or anything.
Also with pre-reg vs day of I kept the difference about the same. I think it's about $3 more to do day-of, total cost, but for me as the promoter it's $6 more. If the costs are a wash then I prefer to do day-of so the promoter makes more money. I figure BikeReg has made dough of of me off my races, I can give some of what I pay in fees to the (other) promoters.
Finally, as a tip to BikeReg, they only collect on payments. If something is free there is no fee. I've done some free-to-participate reg things and it's totally free, no BikeReg fees or anything.
i was just guessing, but i know they do not immediately distribute funds to a promoter, so i figure they would remove chargeback fees from whatever the promoter receives. that's a guess on my part.
either way, unfair use of chargeback IMO.
05-05-15, 11:25 AM
#8482
out walking the earth
Thread Starter
CRCA is hardly a monopoly. They put on 3 or 4 open races a year. Don't go. There are other races this weekend. They're expensive and to some extent folks have voted with their feet by not doing them. Only 12 masters registered for Orchard Beach so far. That's sure to double, but it's a far cry from a full field.
What would be the appropriate community outcome for the guy who wants a refund because he can't show? Outrage enough that puts the oldest club in the country out of business? That's awfully self important for someone not in their club.
It never even occurred to me that refunds were possible. It seems pretty silly. I've never even heard of refunds being possible.
What would be the appropriate community outcome for the guy who wants a refund because he can't show? Outrage enough that puts the oldest club in the country out of business? That's awfully self important for someone not in their club.
It never even occurred to me that refunds were possible. It seems pretty silly. I've never even heard of refunds being possible.
05-05-15, 11:28 AM
#8483
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I bought concert tickets a little while ago. Bought online, tickets are delivered through an app, no paper at all, entirely digital.
Got charged a $7 handling fee. And not one, but two convenience fees (convenient for who?) I'm still trying to figure out exactly what was being handled. That's a rather irritating fee or three.
Got charged a $7 handling fee. And not one, but two convenience fees (convenient for who?) I'm still trying to figure out exactly what was being handled. That's a rather irritating fee or three.
05-05-15, 11:34 AM
#8484
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I think you should get a refund if a race is canceled by promoter choice, not weather or something like that. And if you're trying to convince me I should register months in advance, I'm going to say no unless there's a possibility of getting a refund if my circumstances change. If I register Tuesday for a race Saturday, and the race happens, I can't see any reason I should have a refund available there though.
05-05-15, 11:50 AM
#8485
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I'm not considering fighting the charge at all, just to be clear. I sent one email, asking to refund so I could race Orchard Beach instead. That was denied. Now that I'm sick I'm not racing at all, so really none of this matters.
I wouldn't ask for a refund because I pre-reged and got sick. I only asked for one to switch between races from same promoter. Why they wouldn't do that doesn't make sense to me, and that's what left me with a negative feeling. That doesn't feel right to me regardless if it's common practice or not.
I wouldn't ask for a refund because I pre-reged and got sick. I only asked for one to switch between races from same promoter. Why they wouldn't do that doesn't make sense to me, and that's what left me with a negative feeling. That doesn't feel right to me regardless if it's common practice or not.
05-05-15, 12:03 PM
#8486
Senior Member
I'm not considering fighting the charge at all, just to be clear. I sent one email, asking to refund so I could race Orchard Beach instead. That was denied. Now that I'm sick I'm not racing at all, so really none of this matters.
I wouldn't ask for a refund because I pre-reged and got sick. I only asked for one to switch between races from same promoter. Why they wouldn't do that doesn't make sense to me, and that's what left me with a negative feeling. That doesn't feel right to me regardless if it's common practice or not.
I wouldn't ask for a refund because I pre-reged and got sick. I only asked for one to switch between races from same promoter. Why they wouldn't do that doesn't make sense to me, and that's what left me with a negative feeling. That doesn't feel right to me regardless if it's common practice or not.
If BikeReg charged a fee they delivered that service (so that I could pay by credit card, for example) so they should keep their fee.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
05-05-15, 12:17 PM
#8487
Senior Member
This is based on separate permits each week so the races aren't connected.
With a Series it's worse. A racer might pay for the Series at the beginning and then crash and break something. Then I can't refund them via credit card because the money got emptied out the Friday before the race. I had a few situations where I refunded a portion of a Series due to something like this - I had to send them a check or they'd ask me to comp them for next year. I also refunded one rider's entire entry fee, with BikeReg's help, in an extreme situation. They allowed me to refund the money to the card even though at that moment I didn't have the money to cover it in the various races' BikeReg accounts. They're very helpful but I ask for help only when I judge it to be appropriate.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
05-05-15, 12:27 PM
#8488
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I get disbursed the day registration closes on BikeReg, so for me the check gets cut Fri before the race, I usually see it Tuesday. I'm not sure if that's the default but I never changed anything, just left it "as is". This can be problematic when I allow someone to move from one week to a later week, then they get sick and want a refund. I would give them a refund but I can't because the first week money (where BikeReg collected the fee) is gone. I can't give a refund from a different week to the same rider. In these situations I mail a check.
This is based on separate permits each week so the races aren't connected.
With a Series it's worse. A racer might pay for the Series at the beginning and then crash and break something. Then I can't refund them via credit card because the money got emptied out the Friday before the race. I had a few situations where I refunded a portion of a Series due to something like this - I had to send them a check or they'd ask me to comp them for next year. I also refunded one rider's entire entry fee, with BikeReg's help, in an extreme situation. They allowed me to refund the money to the card even though at that moment I didn't have the money to cover it in the various races' BikeReg accounts. They're very helpful but I ask for help only when I judge it to be appropriate.
This is based on separate permits each week so the races aren't connected.
With a Series it's worse. A racer might pay for the Series at the beginning and then crash and break something. Then I can't refund them via credit card because the money got emptied out the Friday before the race. I had a few situations where I refunded a portion of a Series due to something like this - I had to send them a check or they'd ask me to comp them for next year. I also refunded one rider's entire entry fee, with BikeReg's help, in an extreme situation. They allowed me to refund the money to the card even though at that moment I didn't have the money to cover it in the various races' BikeReg accounts. They're very helpful but I ask for help only when I judge it to be appropriate.
point is that in some instances some services do not get the final check out until after pre-reg closes (which can be the night before), so sometimes a check is not cut until the following week, so there is room for a service to withhold funds in the event of a chargeback.
05-05-15, 12:35 PM
#8489
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As a promoter I would be inclined to let you do what you will, especially since it's before the race. I was pretty rude to one guy that asked for a refund the day AFTER the race because he was sick. Before the race? It hasn't even happened so I haven't delivered anything so I should give you your money back.
If BikeReg charged a fee they delivered that service (so that I could pay by credit card, for example) so they should keep their fee.
If BikeReg charged a fee they delivered that service (so that I could pay by credit card, for example) so they should keep their fee.
05-05-15, 03:18 PM
#8490
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Me too! I came to the USA without a credit card, only cash/atm and had to use mental math in the stores to make sure I had enough money before I got to the register!
05-05-15, 06:17 PM
#8493
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You can borrow mine until you figure out what you want to do. 404FC tubular.
05-05-15, 07:10 PM
#8494
Senior Member
Valve broke on my Stinger 7's tire. Nib broke off. Used the Jet 6. Wasn't too bad.
Broke a zip tie holding my SRM pick up for speed.
Need to lube the derailleur cable.
Need to glue a tire on my Stinger 4.
It's like the July mechanical blues in May.
Broke a zip tie holding my SRM pick up for speed.
Need to lube the derailleur cable.
Need to glue a tire on my Stinger 4.
It's like the July mechanical blues in May.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
05-05-15, 07:26 PM
#8496
Senior Member
Did the As. Seemed pretty tame as I could hang (Ben watched, Austin seemed cooked). Tried to give a teammate a leadout. When I told him to get on my wheel he looked at me like I had two heads, it was like he was on a charity ride and the rest of us were racing. I yelled at him on the cool down lap. I even used naughty words, repeatedly, loudly.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
05-05-15, 09:05 PM
#8500
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