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Season Wrap Up

Old 09-09-14, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by mattm
so other promoters hate red kite, basically?
Ha...seemed like there were some indirect "wtf Steve??" type comments on there. (edit: Yahoo "discussions" pages are a terrible format for following a "discussion", btw).

Someone argued that guys love flat square crits because at worst, you can drive 30-60 minutes, race twice, finish in the pack and not have your feelings get hurt when you get dropped on a hill. Basically, guys should HTFU and challenge themselves on harder courses (Cat's Hill, Santa Cruz, etc), get dropped, and learn to race better or get better fitness.

I just like to race and have options, but it is interesting seeing the discussions of those that actually put on the races.
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Old 09-09-14, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by hack
Some chatter on the NCNCA Yahoo page suggests there may be an interest in cutting back some events (flat business park crits in particular) in an effort to increase field sizes at other events. In particular, there is interest in protecting stage races and the "classic" races (e.g., Dunnigan, downtown crits, etc) while making new courses more challenging to better prepare NCNCA'ers for competition at the national level. From what I read, it sounds like that is the "interest", but little may change.
i think the main thing is not to have races on the same day as a 'classic' race. but that probably wont happen. i would be all for more crits with little bumps. but that probably wont happen either
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Old 09-09-14, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by save10
i think the main thing is not to have races on the same day as a 'classic' race. but that probably wont happen. i would be all for more crits with little bumps. but that probably wont happen either
I might be greedy and not looking at it through the eyes of the promoters, but it's nice having so many options.
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Old 09-09-14, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by hack
Ha...seemed like there were some indirect "wtf Steve??" type comments on there. (edit: Yahoo "discussions" pages are a terrible format for following a "discussion", btw).

Someone argued that guys love flat square crits because at worst, you can drive 30-60 minutes, race twice, finish in the pack and not have your feelings get hurt when you get dropped on a hill. Basically, guys should HTFU and challenge themselves on harder courses (Cat's Hill, Santa Cruz, etc), get dropped, and learn to race better or get better fitness.

I just like to race and have options, but it is interesting seeing the discussions of those that actually put on the races.
You eliminate the flat crits and the stockier guys that are 180+ probably would just stop racing.
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Old 09-09-14, 03:16 PM
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Not surprisingly, it was a Masters racer that was complaining in the first place that started the discussion. You'd think Jr's would whine more but no, it's the old folks!!

Anyway as far as I can tell Vacaville got moved at some point, so it was actually their fault and not Red Kite's. Plus the two promoters coordinated to make sure people could race both if they wanted to.. I don't really see a problem.

/ncnca takeover of thread
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Old 09-09-14, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by furiousferret
You eliminate the flat crits and the stockier guys that are 180+ probably would just stop racing.
why.
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Old 09-09-14, 04:21 PM
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I did somewhat terrible but toward the end I was really feeling all the training paying off. I was on fairly good form to win(thruthfully). My 1min power spiked pretty high and my threshhold was coming around.

Jan: 4, 13
Feb: 25,49, 10, 74
March: 11, 45, 20, 14, DNS
April: 46, DNF
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Old 09-09-14, 04:21 PM
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When you're 240 and your niche is sprinting any circuit with an elevation gain over 10 can be problematic.
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Old 09-09-14, 04:25 PM
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I bet not a lot of 240 pounders are particularly good at many cycling disciplines including sprinting.
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Old 09-09-14, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by furiousferret
When you're 240 and your niche is sprinting any circuit with an elevation gain over 10 can be problematic.
You could make that 180, depending on the height of the rider.

Also a sprinter would probably like a tiny bit of elevation gain. What goes up must come down. A sprinter that has to make a 20 second effort to make it up a short steep hill can then relax for a bit as gravity helps him. Problematic only if there is more than one hill every, say, 2 minutes. For me that's ideal.

I find flat courses hard because you can't really take it easy anywhere. A course with a little hill (20 seconds or less), much easier.

I had a short conversation with another racer about promoting. He was interested in doing a crit local to him, on city streets. He asked me budget range for holding a crit.

"Bethel, like $6k a week, because it's in an industrial park. I know that two downtown crits, A and B, were $25-30k. The old C Crit got canceled because police costs went to $25k."
"Oh, okay, so I'll need to look at something like $25k."
"???"

As a promoter I don't want to look for sponsors. I also don't want to lose money. Bethel cost just a touch over $6k a week to hold. I don't think that my "race for racers"* philosophy works well for anything more complicated than an industrial park. To cover $25k expenses… that would be really stressful. If the race gets 400 racers that's over $60 entry each! An expensive race gets less racers. More racers if it's cheaper but then it's 600 racers at $40. And those numbers are $1k short.

Bethel typically gets 250-300 racers. Big would be 400. Huge races in the area are 500-550 racers, Bethel has never had that.

*to be fair that wasn't my saying, it was one of the original founders of the Bethel Spring Series, but it's the philosophy I've embraced.
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Old 09-09-14, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by furiousferret
When you're 240 and your niche is sprinting any circuit with an elevation gain over 10 can be problematic.
I'm a fatty and best at crits like CDR described. Short violent efforts with a small window to recover in. I can do that all day
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Old 09-09-14, 05:59 PM
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One win, a bunch of podiums and at least one top 5 in a P/1/2/3, then crashed out for good at the end of June. Next year if things go my way I am going to focus on M50+ and M55+ both road and criterium.
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Old 09-10-14, 10:31 AM
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My season was my first as a 3. I went well through June/July and got a 2nd in my first "A" race and a couple of wins and 2nd's in our training series, mostly outnumbered 5 or 6 to one by another team. I felt like I was flying.

The plan was to peak again for Masters Nationals (35-39). Excuses, excuses, excuses, I never got back where I wanted and came in mid-20s in the race. I suppose I should be happy about hanging in and finishing ahead of some guys, but at the same time I really did no work going into the last hill and still I didn't really factor.

I hoped to get a result in our last training race of the year but I couldn't make it out. Oh well.

My positives are that I think I can hang with some really strong riders and if I put my mind to it could race as a 2 and certainly win lumpy weekend races as a 3. To move forward next year my challenge will be somehow putting in more work with more demands from family/work (what's new?).
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Old 09-10-14, 11:36 AM
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I learned so much this year. My album of (5-wide norcal) podium pics is 18 photos and I am missing some of the unofficial TTs and I think 2 cat 3 races. I won a districts jersey, all else is gravy.

Things I learned, in no particular order
  • racing is the best practice for racing
  • weight is not everything
  • the line between glory and failure is quite thin
  • racing with teammates who are smart is really great
  • crits are fun (and easy!)
  • time trial bikes take practice to ride well
  • waiting for x, y, or z fitness before racing is stupid
  • cat 2s are human
  • cat 1s can get tired
  • sprinters are liars first, second, and forever
  • winning isn't everything. I'm usually still dissatisfied with one aspect or another
  • outside of the other racers in your field, basically no one else gives a ****
  • Strava is still fun, **** all y'all haters!
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Old 09-10-14, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Ygduf
I learned so much this year. My album of (5-wide norcal) podium pics is 18 photos and I am missing some of the unofficial TTs and I think 2 cat 3 races. I won a districts jersey, all else is gravy.

Things I learned, in no particular order
  • racing is the best practice for racing
  • weight is not everything
  • the line between glory and failure is quite thin
  • racing with teammates who are smart is really great
  • crits are fun (and easy!)
  • time trial bikes take practice to ride well
  • waiting for x, y, or z fitness before racing is stupid
  • cat 2s are human
  • cat 1s can get tired
  • sprinters are liars first, second, and forever
  • winning isn't everything. I'm usually still dissatisfied with one aspect or another
  • outside of the other racers in your field, basically no one else gives a ****
  • Strava is still fun, **** all y'all haters!
many good insights there. the 2nd-to-last one is important to remember. i've seen so many racers lose their $hit over a performance (good or bad). perspective's a good thing.
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Old 09-10-14, 01:34 PM
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My season:

August: 26

That's it
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Old 09-10-14, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnKScott
My season:

August: 26

That's it
Nothing wrong with that.
@Ygduf good list, I agree with 95% of it.
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Old 09-10-14, 03:37 PM
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First year of bike racing:
8 crit races, 3 circuit races, 4 road races, one uphill TT and One stage race. Lot's of podiums, primes and fun!
Ended up the season at Master's Nats in Utah.
Unfortunately ended the season with my only DNF. Got caught in a crash in the crit in Master's Nats. 2 broken ribs, strained back and some road rash!

Plan to come back for more (minus the crashing) next season
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Old 09-10-14, 03:59 PM
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Road:

District Tandem 40K Time Trial Championship with wife - win and a bear jersey to add to collection.

Track:

LAVRA time trials in Carson, CA - 6 race days at various events.

Masters Track Nationals in Redmond, WA - One silver and 3 bronze: 500 meters, 2k individual pursuit, team pursuit and team sprint. Making the podium in both the 500 meters and individual pursuit was the highlight of the year for me.
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Old 09-10-14, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by rideaz
First year of bike racing:
8 crit races, 3 circuit races, 4 road races, one uphill TT and One stage race. Lot's of podiums, primes and fun!
Ended up the season at Master's Nats in Utah.
Unfortunately ended the season with my only DNF. Got caught in a crash in the crit in Master's Nats. 2 broken ribs, strained back and some road rash!

Plan to come back for more (minus the crashing) next season
Damn sorry to hear about the crash!! Besides that, you had a great season at least.

I definitely get the impression that National-champ events are crashier than regular races, can't wait to find out for myself next year.
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Old 09-10-14, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Hermes
Road:

District Tandem 40K Time Trial Championship with wife - win and a bear jersey to add to collection.

Track:

LAVRA time trials in Carson, CA - 6 race days at various events.

Masters Track Nationals in Redmond, WA - One silver and 3 bronze: 500 meters, 2k individual pursuit, team pursuit and team sprint. Making the podium in both the 500 meters and individual pursuit was the highlight of the year for me.
Not too shabby!
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Old 09-11-14, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Ygduf
Things I learned, in no particular order
  • racing is the best practice for racing
  • weight is not everything
  • the line between glory and failure is quite thin
  • racing with teammates who are smart is really great
  • crits are fun (and easy!)
  • time trial bikes take practice to ride well
  • waiting for x, y, or z fitness before racing is stupid
  • cat 2s are human
  • cat 1s can get tired
  • sprinters are liars first, second, and forever
  • winning isn't everything. I'm usually still dissatisfied with one aspect or another
  • outside of the other racers in your field, basically no one else gives a ****
  • Strava is still fun, **** all y'all haters!
well at least someone is paying attention out there
nice list except that last one; I prefer to keep my handlebar pure of anything but tape
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Old 09-11-14, 06:49 AM
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Crits are easy?
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Old 09-11-14, 06:52 AM
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yeah man, crits only require like 60 to 90 minutes of fitness. just about anyone can ride for that long
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Old 09-11-14, 08:31 AM
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I assume Ygduf just meant that crits are not as "scary" as all the noobs would lead you to believe.
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