Catch all Professional Cycling Chat (Possible Spoilers)
07-10-15, 02:51 PM
#302
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-Two guys out while wearing yellow (is that a first?).
-All former ITT world champions in the race out due to crash - while wearing yellow.
-All former ITT world champions in the race out due to crash - while wearing yellow.
07-10-15, 04:40 PM
#304
VeloSIRraptor
ah, GMT got there first - gosh, those three wins sure seem like a long time ago.
Last edited by Hida Yanra; 07-10-15 at 04:46 PM.
07-10-15, 11:29 PM
#305
**** that
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exciting sprint today - no tt guys getting in the way.
I know slow-motion climbing stages are what make the yellow jersey winner, but it's these kind of finishes that make it all worth watching!
sad to see kristoff so slow tho. and where's modolo this year??
I know slow-motion climbing stages are what make the yellow jersey winner, but it's these kind of finishes that make it all worth watching!
sad to see kristoff so slow tho. and where's modolo this year??
07-10-15, 11:39 PM
#306
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poor tony. seemed like it was 70% his fault tho.. ok maybe 51%.
then stybar didn't seem to know what had happened yet when tony congratulated him, and stybar gave him a hug. ouch #2 .
then stybar didn't seem to know what had happened yet when tony congratulated him, and stybar gave him a hug. ouch #2 .
definitely was a team player instead of merely staying out of trouble in the final k's.
07-12-15, 04:38 PM
#312
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I think I could help these guys with numbers. They look like the no pin, adhesive backed versions.
07-14-15, 09:30 AM
#313
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Quite a stage today. I feel bad for anybody who bought a broadcast pass for the Tour because it sure looks like it's over.
On the same topic, I finished Kimmage's book last night. It was a fun, if uneven, read, but what struck me most was how primitive and even quaint the doping stories were.
And finally here are some interesting comments (written just before today's stage!) from someone I consider generally level-headed:
On the same topic, I finished Kimmage's book last night. It was a fun, if uneven, read, but what struck me most was how primitive and even quaint the doping stories were.
And finally here are some interesting comments (written just before today's stage!) from someone I consider generally level-headed:
Originally Posted by https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1033149476696091&id=213103522034028
The first rest day of the Tour de France produced, as usual, some off-the-bike stories, but in 6 years of covering the race, I can't recall such a bizarre sequence of events as this one.
About five days ago, Antoine Vayer, he who provoked Brailsford into calling performance analysis "pseudoscience", started to post graphs on Twitter showing Froome's power output and heart rate on his climb of Ventoux in 2013. They include an attack, off a base of long periods of 400W, up to 1000W, and maintaining 600W during attacks. During this period, his heart rate barely changes - 157 pre-attack, 161 post.
Next, someone industrious managed to take a file of the raw data and synchronize it to video footage of the ride, so that you could see, second by second, how speed, HR, altitude and power changed. It was fascinating to watch - in fact, it's a model for how the broadcast should look.
I'd love to provide you with the link to this video, but Sky's lawyers have had it removed, and the person who did this no longer has a Twitter account (whose doing, not sure - initial reports said it was legal action and suspended), which I find an absolutely extraordinary response. The data by itself didn't mean all that much, and if it was fabricated, just say so. Or heaven forbid, use the opportunity to explain and gain some points for the now extinct concept of transparency in the sport.
There are many possible explanations for the dislinkage between power output and HR, by the way. He may already have been very close to his maximal heart rate (but then you have to say, that's a mighty fine effort to ride Ventoux at 95% of max in the third week of a Grand Tour, and also to attack with a 250W increase off a maximum heart rate, four times, from a base of 400W. Not bad). Perhaps the HR was faulty, maybe it's irrelevant or typical for an elite rider attacking to peak power off threshold power. It's probably not worth overplaying.
The power output data is really interesting though - back then, we estimated the power on that climb to be 389W (or 388W using Dr Ferrari's method), and I can assure you, having seen the raw file with second-by-second data (it's doing the rounds), that the estimate is well, very exact. I'm hesitant to post exact figures because Sky's legal team had a person's entire account removed, even though this data is all on the internet already.
The response has been amazing. As in 2013, the data was first dismissed as fabricated. Then as hacked (which is a tacit acknowledgement of its validity). Or maybe irrelevant. The usual attacks that it proves nothing came, to which I'd respond by saying "welcome to a six-year long conversation, take a side-order of context with that indignation". Fact is, we've been here before, and it's the reaction more than the revelation that is so amazing.
While on the subject of power data, I cannot understand why teams believe they should keep it secret to the extent that Sky seem to. It is analogous to Justin Gatlin asking for the clock to be covered up for his 100m races - that way nobody will know that beating him will take a 9.74s or faster. But they know this already - all the pro teams know what the power output requirement for 10 min, 20 min, 45 min, 60 min is. Transparency would hurt nobody, except those who need performance not to be known (Hey Justin, that's a free tip - ask them to hide the clock so nobody knows how fast you're going).
Finally, back in 2013, it was a remarkable performance, and putting it to concrete numbers is probably unlikely to sway you from whatever you believed (or want to believe) to begin with. I wish the opaque curtain of PR & legal action could be lifted. Today was not a good day for winning the minds of a watching public, or for the believability of the sport.
Long live transparency.
Ross
About five days ago, Antoine Vayer, he who provoked Brailsford into calling performance analysis "pseudoscience", started to post graphs on Twitter showing Froome's power output and heart rate on his climb of Ventoux in 2013. They include an attack, off a base of long periods of 400W, up to 1000W, and maintaining 600W during attacks. During this period, his heart rate barely changes - 157 pre-attack, 161 post.
Next, someone industrious managed to take a file of the raw data and synchronize it to video footage of the ride, so that you could see, second by second, how speed, HR, altitude and power changed. It was fascinating to watch - in fact, it's a model for how the broadcast should look.
I'd love to provide you with the link to this video, but Sky's lawyers have had it removed, and the person who did this no longer has a Twitter account (whose doing, not sure - initial reports said it was legal action and suspended), which I find an absolutely extraordinary response. The data by itself didn't mean all that much, and if it was fabricated, just say so. Or heaven forbid, use the opportunity to explain and gain some points for the now extinct concept of transparency in the sport.
There are many possible explanations for the dislinkage between power output and HR, by the way. He may already have been very close to his maximal heart rate (but then you have to say, that's a mighty fine effort to ride Ventoux at 95% of max in the third week of a Grand Tour, and also to attack with a 250W increase off a maximum heart rate, four times, from a base of 400W. Not bad). Perhaps the HR was faulty, maybe it's irrelevant or typical for an elite rider attacking to peak power off threshold power. It's probably not worth overplaying.
The power output data is really interesting though - back then, we estimated the power on that climb to be 389W (or 388W using Dr Ferrari's method), and I can assure you, having seen the raw file with second-by-second data (it's doing the rounds), that the estimate is well, very exact. I'm hesitant to post exact figures because Sky's legal team had a person's entire account removed, even though this data is all on the internet already.
The response has been amazing. As in 2013, the data was first dismissed as fabricated. Then as hacked (which is a tacit acknowledgement of its validity). Or maybe irrelevant. The usual attacks that it proves nothing came, to which I'd respond by saying "welcome to a six-year long conversation, take a side-order of context with that indignation". Fact is, we've been here before, and it's the reaction more than the revelation that is so amazing.
While on the subject of power data, I cannot understand why teams believe they should keep it secret to the extent that Sky seem to. It is analogous to Justin Gatlin asking for the clock to be covered up for his 100m races - that way nobody will know that beating him will take a 9.74s or faster. But they know this already - all the pro teams know what the power output requirement for 10 min, 20 min, 45 min, 60 min is. Transparency would hurt nobody, except those who need performance not to be known (Hey Justin, that's a free tip - ask them to hide the clock so nobody knows how fast you're going).
Finally, back in 2013, it was a remarkable performance, and putting it to concrete numbers is probably unlikely to sway you from whatever you believed (or want to believe) to begin with. I wish the opaque curtain of PR & legal action could be lifted. Today was not a good day for winning the minds of a watching public, or for the believability of the sport.
Long live transparency.
Ross
07-14-15, 10:21 AM
#315
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Looks like Gesink got his "rest day" ride correct, and many others did not. Wow.
https://www.strava.com/pros/robertgesink
https://www.strava.com/pros/robertgesink
07-14-15, 10:59 AM
#316
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todays stage was great. the way usps just let telekom and phonak lead at the base of the climb was tactical genius. when the telekom guys started falling off one by one cooking themselves, it was awesome the way hincapie came to the front and pushed it while heras and armstrong waited in the wings. then when vino attacked heras kept his cool, rode him down and dispatched him accordingly. after simoni, landis, and hamilton finally cracked, heras lit it up so it was just him, armstrong and beloki. when armstrong went, beloki didnt have a chance. cool the way heras chased down beloki to take 2nd on the stage. i felt bad for jalabar and virenque, they were out in front for so long, I thought they'd maybe they had a chance to get to the top of the climb ahead of the gc guys.
07-14-15, 11:02 AM
#318
Ninny
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todays stage was great. the way usps just let telekom and phonak lead at the base of the climb was tactical genius. when the telekom guys started falling off one by one cooking themselves, it was awesome the way hincapie came to the front and pushed it while heras and armstrong waited in the wings. then when vino attacked heras kept his cool, rode him down and dispatched him accordingly. after simoni, landis, and hamilton finally cracked, heras lit it up so it was just him, armstrong and beloki. when armstrong went, beloki didnt have a chance. cool the way heras chased down beloki to take 2nd on the stage. i felt bad for jalabar and virenque, they were out in front for so long, I thought they'd maybe they had a chance to get to the top of the climb ahead of the gc guys.
Yes indeed, a great day for UK Postal. They earned the yellow lab coats today.
Here's today's stage finish for anyone who missed it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqh4a4kooEE
Last edited by globecanvas; 07-14-15 at 11:05 AM.
07-14-15, 11:33 AM
#319
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Yes indeed, a great day for UK Postal. They earned the yellow lab coats today.
Here's today's stage finish for anyone who missed it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqh4a4kooEE
Here's today's stage finish for anyone who missed it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqh4a4kooEE
07-14-15, 04:10 PM
#320
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todays stage was great. the way usps just let telekom and phonak lead at the base of the climb was tactical genius. when the telekom guys started falling off one by one cooking themselves, it was awesome the way hincapie came to the front and pushed it while heras and armstrong waited in the wings. then when vino attacked heras kept his cool, rode him down and dispatched him accordingly. after simoni, landis, and hamilton finally cracked, heras lit it up so it was just him, armstrong and beloki. when armstrong went, beloki didnt have a chance. cool the way heras chased down beloki to take 2nd on the stage. i felt bad for jalabar and virenque, they were out in front for so long, I thought they'd maybe they had a chance to get to the top of the climb ahead of the gc guys.
07-14-15, 04:46 PM
#321
fuggitivo solitario
Yes indeed, a great day for UK Postal. They earned the yellow lab coats today.
Here's today's stage finish for anyone who missed it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqh4a4kooEE
Here's today's stage finish for anyone who missed it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqh4a4kooEE
07-14-15, 04:47 PM
#322
Not actually Tmonk
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lack of capitalization is still cool.
what are you, like, old or something???
what are you, like, old or something???
__________________
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
07-14-15, 05:22 PM
#323
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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honestly, it's still cool. cmh ain't lying.
but strava is so fred.
Looks like Gesink got his "rest day" ride correct, and many others did not. Wow.
https://www.strava.com/pros/robertgesink
https://www.strava.com/pros/robertgesink
07-14-15, 05:36 PM
#324
una carrera contrarreloj
