Catch all Professional Cycling Chat (Possible Spoilers)
#1027
**** that
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Sprinting is sketchy by default.
But yeah no reason to brush up on Kittel like that - except, that can work to psych out a weak opponent and make them coast a half second.
However Kittel is not weak, and he showed that today!
I bet Kittel won't make a formal complaint about Coquard or even say anything in interviews about it. I could be wrong though.
But yeah no reason to brush up on Kittel like that - except, that can work to psych out a weak opponent and make them coast a half second.
However Kittel is not weak, and he showed that today!
I bet Kittel won't make a formal complaint about Coquard or even say anything in interviews about it. I could be wrong though.
#1028
Senior Member
I think Coquard was maxed out. He wasn't veering a lot at all, no closing doors or anything. To me it seemed like a reasonable sprint given he was done at 10m to go.
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"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
#1030
gmt
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Seemed like the same gear as Kittel Last Km of Stage 4 (2016/tour-de-france)
#1031
Senior Member
From BH Bike's page on Facebook:
It appears that Coquard either didn't throw his bike at all or horribly mistimed it. Based on the fact that his butt is still planted firmly in his saddle and his arms are extended I'm inclined to lean toward the "he doesn't know how to throw his bike" side of things.
Kittel should have lost that sprint by a good 6-12 inches if Coquard had done his job properly.
It appears that Coquard either didn't throw his bike at all or horribly mistimed it. Based on the fact that his butt is still planted firmly in his saddle and his arms are extended I'm inclined to lean toward the "he doesn't know how to throw his bike" side of things.
Kittel should have lost that sprint by a good 6-12 inches if Coquard had done his job properly.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
#1033
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https://www.steephill.tv/players/720/...6CV1sh&yr=2016
Watch the above video. They both throw almost exactly the same amount at the same time.
Watch the above video. They both throw almost exactly the same amount at the same time.
#1034
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I'd guess he's a decent bike thrower and that effort may have been all he had given he was about to fall over (and that Kittel did fall over shortly thereafter).
#1037
Senior Member
From BH Bike's page on Facebook:
It appears that Coquard either didn't throw his bike at all or horribly mistimed it. Based on the fact that his butt is still planted firmly in his saddle and his arms are extended I'm inclined to lean toward the "he doesn't know how to throw his bike" side of things.
Kittel should have lost that sprint by a good 6-12 inches if Coquard had done his job properly.
It appears that Coquard either didn't throw his bike at all or horribly mistimed it. Based on the fact that his butt is still planted firmly in his saddle and his arms are extended I'm inclined to lean toward the "he doesn't know how to throw his bike" side of things.
Kittel should have lost that sprint by a good 6-12 inches if Coquard had done his job properly.
#1038
Senior Member
Track throws are different because you can't freewheel. I'd crash if I threw my bike as far on the track as I do on the road. Track throws give very little gain because you have to keep pedaling at some insane speed. A good road bike throw will get you a solid foot, 18". It looks like neither rider threw their bike well, although Kittel did a marginally better job than Coquard who simply sat down on his bike. I wonder if it's worth it to crash throwing the bike to win a stage in the Tour.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
#1040
Nonsense
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It's nice to see Cav back to peak pomp. Today it looked like he jumped after Kittel did, and he was still able to come around him, which is ridiculous.
#1041
**** that
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I spoiled today's episode trying to find the stream.
NBC Sports on SlingTV doesn't have it on-demand, which is ridiculous. And the NBC Sports app on Apple TV is riddled with spoilers, yet doesn't have the full stage.
F it tho, I'm still gonna watch the replay after work!
NBC Sports on SlingTV doesn't have it on-demand, which is ridiculous. And the NBC Sports app on Apple TV is riddled with spoilers, yet doesn't have the full stage.
F it tho, I'm still gonna watch the replay after work!
#1042
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Impressive stuff from Cav. Wonder if he's just feeling better or if Kittel is just doing worse relative to the past couple of years. Kittel's leadout still looks like crap. When he was with Giant that thing was dialed and perfect. Now guys are all over the place, out of sync, leading out other riders and so on.
#1044
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There are multiple teams all trying to control the leadout and it burns the leadout guys up leaving 4-5-6 sprinters left at 300m.
Best leadouts are when teams have unequal strength. Seems pretty equitable this year.
Best leadouts are when teams have unequal strength. Seems pretty equitable this year.
#1046
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#1047
Senior Member
I think the sprints have been too fast for organized leadouts. Kittel had two guys but couldn't hold the wheel of his leadout guy. I think Katusha had two guys but Kristoff went backward in the sprint.
McLay was impressive but came up a bit short. He was faster than most everyone else though. I think he'll be a good sprinter. He's the guy that did that nutty sprint earlier this year. He's obviously comfortable with the slicing and dicing of a free for all sprint.
About bike throws - it seems unprofessional not to know/execute basic technical skills. The two skills I see misused or not used are that totally unrelated to actual "physical training" (and therefore ought to be somewhat practiced by everyone who might need them) are bike throws and cornering. Bike throws are sort of a less used skill, but imagine you're a domestique allowed to get into the days' break and then you lose because you don't throw your bike well?
In Cadel's Tour he sprints against Contador for one stage. Contador may not have won the stage even with a great bike throw but he had a pretty poor bike throw (I just watched the DVD again).
In fact Cadel Evans is one rider that seems to be tactically very good. In Cadel's Tour, but also 2006/Floyd, the last two super DVD sets I watched, he's pretty much the only rider that sits out of the wind on switchback climbs. He carefully moves over to the left or right after a significant switchback to shelter from the wind. The other riders simply follow the one in front of them and end up getting hit by what's usually a crosswind (based on flags on the side of the road). Cadel also corners reasonably well.
Which brings me to the other skill some pros should practice. For me cornering poorly is really inexcusable. The two riders that come to mind immediately when thinking about cornering poorly are Levi Leipheimer and Michael Rasmussen. Levi in particular went off the front in some stage and gave away most of his gains on the descent as he screwed up corner after corner after corner. To make it worse he wasn't even alone - there was a guy with him yet Levi wouldn't/couldn't follow his lines. Rasmussen was painfully bad at cornering - you could tell where he was on a descent because there was a gap in front of him after each switchback and a rider diving into the turn way too early each time. These guys train (or dope or whatever) super hard and then give it back without a fight because they don't have some technical stuff down.
There are magnificent technical riders, like Sagan or Cancellara, but not everyone needs to be, or can be, that good. However if you're making a living as a pro then you should have some basic skills like knowing how to corner or throwing your bike at the line well. This simply complements their immense physical talents and lets them eek out the last bit of performance on the bike.
McLay was impressive but came up a bit short. He was faster than most everyone else though. I think he'll be a good sprinter. He's the guy that did that nutty sprint earlier this year. He's obviously comfortable with the slicing and dicing of a free for all sprint.
About bike throws - it seems unprofessional not to know/execute basic technical skills. The two skills I see misused or not used are that totally unrelated to actual "physical training" (and therefore ought to be somewhat practiced by everyone who might need them) are bike throws and cornering. Bike throws are sort of a less used skill, but imagine you're a domestique allowed to get into the days' break and then you lose because you don't throw your bike well?
In Cadel's Tour he sprints against Contador for one stage. Contador may not have won the stage even with a great bike throw but he had a pretty poor bike throw (I just watched the DVD again).
In fact Cadel Evans is one rider that seems to be tactically very good. In Cadel's Tour, but also 2006/Floyd, the last two super DVD sets I watched, he's pretty much the only rider that sits out of the wind on switchback climbs. He carefully moves over to the left or right after a significant switchback to shelter from the wind. The other riders simply follow the one in front of them and end up getting hit by what's usually a crosswind (based on flags on the side of the road). Cadel also corners reasonably well.
Which brings me to the other skill some pros should practice. For me cornering poorly is really inexcusable. The two riders that come to mind immediately when thinking about cornering poorly are Levi Leipheimer and Michael Rasmussen. Levi in particular went off the front in some stage and gave away most of his gains on the descent as he screwed up corner after corner after corner. To make it worse he wasn't even alone - there was a guy with him yet Levi wouldn't/couldn't follow his lines. Rasmussen was painfully bad at cornering - you could tell where he was on a descent because there was a gap in front of him after each switchback and a rider diving into the turn way too early each time. These guys train (or dope or whatever) super hard and then give it back without a fight because they don't have some technical stuff down.
There are magnificent technical riders, like Sagan or Cancellara, but not everyone needs to be, or can be, that good. However if you're making a living as a pro then you should have some basic skills like knowing how to corner or throwing your bike at the line well. This simply complements their immense physical talents and lets them eek out the last bit of performance on the bike.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
#1049
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However if you're making a living as a pro then you should have some basic skills like knowing how to corner or throwing your bike at the line well. This simply complements their immense physical talents and lets them eek out the last bit of performance on the bike.
#1050
Nonsense
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That's always been my thought with pro basketball players and free throws. If that's what you make your living doing, why not spend your free time doing it until you get it right? If I suck at free throws (or cornering or whatever), I have an excuse, I have a job/family/other priorities/whatever and don't practice as much as I should. But for me, that's just a hobby. Something I enjoy and put time available into it, but other things come first for me. For them, the basic technical skills of their sport is their job. On the other hand, I'm at my job right now and am posting on BF, so I'm obviously not working on getting the last few minute performance benefit crumbs from my job either.