Go Back  Bike Forums > The Racer's Forum > "The 33"-Road Bike Racing
Reload this Page >

Catch all Professional Cycling Chat (Possible Spoilers)

Notices
"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

Catch all Professional Cycling Chat (Possible Spoilers)

Old 07-05-16, 12:14 PM
  #1026  
**** that
 
mattm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CALI
Posts: 15,402
Mentioned: 151 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1099 Post(s)
Liked 104 Times in 30 Posts
Originally Posted by tetonrider

did you happen to catch his end-of-stage interview? he made a comment about how he actually won a sprint in Qatar but the camera angle had it wrong. pretty weird comment!
Ha no I missed that part, lol!
__________________
cat 1.

my race videos
mattm is offline  
Old 07-05-16, 12:16 PM
  #1027  
**** that
 
mattm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CALI
Posts: 15,402
Mentioned: 151 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1099 Post(s)
Liked 104 Times in 30 Posts
Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy
Coquard is one sketchy sprinter.
Sprinting is sketchy by default.

But yeah no reason to brush up on Kittel like that - except, that can work to psych out a weak opponent and make them coast a half second.

However Kittel is not weak, and he showed that today!

I bet Kittel won't make a formal complaint about Coquard or even say anything in interviews about it. I could be wrong though.
__________________
cat 1.

my race videos
mattm is offline  
Old 07-05-16, 12:47 PM
  #1028  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tariffville, CT
Posts: 15,401

Bikes: Tsunami road bikes, Dolan DF4 track

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 383 Post(s)
Liked 179 Times in 101 Posts
I think Coquard was maxed out. He wasn't veering a lot at all, no closing doors or anything. To me it seemed like a reasonable sprint given he was done at 10m to go.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
carpediemracing is offline  
Old 07-05-16, 12:53 PM
  #1029  
fuggitivo solitario
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 9,107
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 243 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 9 Posts
is it me or did Coquard seem a bit over geared toward the end?
echappist is offline  
Old 07-05-16, 01:37 PM
  #1030  
gmt
 
Grumpy McTrumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Binghamton, NY
Posts: 12,509
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Seemed like the same gear as Kittel Last Km of Stage 4 (2016/tour-de-france)
Grumpy McTrumpy is offline  
Old 07-05-16, 01:53 PM
  #1031  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tariffville, CT
Posts: 15,401

Bikes: Tsunami road bikes, Dolan DF4 track

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 383 Post(s)
Liked 179 Times in 101 Posts
From BH Bike's page on Facebook:


It appears that Coquard either didn't throw his bike at all or horribly mistimed it. Based on the fact that his butt is still planted firmly in his saddle and his arms are extended I'm inclined to lean toward the "he doesn't know how to throw his bike" side of things.

Kittel should have lost that sprint by a good 6-12 inches if Coquard had done his job properly.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
carpediemracing is offline  
Old 07-05-16, 01:55 PM
  #1032  
**** that
 
mattm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CALI
Posts: 15,402
Mentioned: 151 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1099 Post(s)
Liked 104 Times in 30 Posts
Man if these pros only had the skills of us amateurs...

This on-board footage from today's stage is awesome, btw:
__________________
cat 1.

my race videos
mattm is offline  
Old 07-05-16, 01:57 PM
  #1033  
gmt
 
Grumpy McTrumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Binghamton, NY
Posts: 12,509
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
https://www.steephill.tv/players/720/...6CV1sh&yr=2016

Watch the above video. They both throw almost exactly the same amount at the same time.
Grumpy McTrumpy is offline  
Old 07-05-16, 01:58 PM
  #1034  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
hack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Folsom, CA
Posts: 3,888
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 417 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
I'd guess he's a decent bike thrower and that effort may have been all he had given he was about to fall over (and that Kittel did fall over shortly thereafter).
hack is offline  
Old 07-05-16, 02:19 PM
  #1035  
fuggitivo solitario
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 9,107
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 243 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 9 Posts
he races on the track, and i'm sure he's at least decent at it
echappist is offline  
Old 07-05-16, 02:39 PM
  #1036  
Ninny
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: The Gunks
Posts: 5,295
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 686 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by mattm
This on-board footage from today's stage is awesome, btw
I love the guy finger-shooting Sagan at 1:20.
globecanvas is offline  
Old 07-05-16, 02:48 PM
  #1037  
Senior Member
 
PepeM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 6,861
Mentioned: 180 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2739 Post(s)
Liked 119 Times in 59 Posts
Originally Posted by carpediemracing
From BH Bike's page on Facebook:


It appears that Coquard either didn't throw his bike at all or horribly mistimed it. Based on the fact that his butt is still planted firmly in his saddle and his arms are extended I'm inclined to lean toward the "he doesn't know how to throw his bike" side of things.

Kittel should have lost that sprint by a good 6-12 inches if Coquard had done his job properly.
Are those laces?
PepeM is offline  
Old 07-05-16, 09:14 PM
  #1038  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tariffville, CT
Posts: 15,401

Bikes: Tsunami road bikes, Dolan DF4 track

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 383 Post(s)
Liked 179 Times in 101 Posts
Track throws are different because you can't freewheel. I'd crash if I threw my bike as far on the track as I do on the road. Track throws give very little gain because you have to keep pedaling at some insane speed. A good road bike throw will get you a solid foot, 18". It looks like neither rider threw their bike well, although Kittel did a marginally better job than Coquard who simply sat down on his bike. I wonder if it's worth it to crash throwing the bike to win a stage in the Tour.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
carpediemracing is offline  
Old 07-07-16, 08:37 AM
  #1039  
gmt
 
Grumpy McTrumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Binghamton, NY
Posts: 12,509
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Insert yawn pic
Grumpy McTrumpy is offline  
Old 07-07-16, 10:56 AM
  #1040  
Nonsense
 
TheKillerPenguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 13,918

Bikes: Affirmative

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 880 Post(s)
Liked 541 Times in 237 Posts
It's nice to see Cav back to peak pomp. Today it looked like he jumped after Kittel did, and he was still able to come around him, which is ridiculous.
TheKillerPenguin is offline  
Old 07-07-16, 04:48 PM
  #1041  
**** that
 
mattm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CALI
Posts: 15,402
Mentioned: 151 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1099 Post(s)
Liked 104 Times in 30 Posts
I spoiled today's episode trying to find the stream.

NBC Sports on SlingTV doesn't have it on-demand, which is ridiculous. And the NBC Sports app on Apple TV is riddled with spoilers, yet doesn't have the full stage.

F it tho, I'm still gonna watch the replay after work!
__________________
cat 1.

my race videos
mattm is offline  
Old 07-07-16, 05:07 PM
  #1042  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
hack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Folsom, CA
Posts: 3,888
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 417 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Impressive stuff from Cav. Wonder if he's just feeling better or if Kittel is just doing worse relative to the past couple of years. Kittel's leadout still looks like crap. When he was with Giant that thing was dialed and perfect. Now guys are all over the place, out of sync, leading out other riders and so on.
hack is offline  
Old 07-07-16, 05:28 PM
  #1043  
Senior Member
 
PepeM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 6,861
Mentioned: 180 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2739 Post(s)
Liked 119 Times in 59 Posts
I don't think I've seen a single proper good leadout in this Tour.
PepeM is offline  
Old 07-07-16, 08:26 PM
  #1044  
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Ygduf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 10,978

Bikes: aggressive agreement is what I ride.

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 967 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by PepeM
I don't think I've seen a single proper good leadout in this Tour.
There are multiple teams all trying to control the leadout and it burns the leadout guys up leaving 4-5-6 sprinters left at 300m.

Best leadouts are when teams have unequal strength. Seems pretty equitable this year.
Ygduf is offline  
Old 07-07-16, 08:34 PM
  #1045  
Nonsense
 
TheKillerPenguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 13,918

Bikes: Affirmative

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 880 Post(s)
Liked 541 Times in 237 Posts
It was kind of awkward watching Voeckler & Co. reel the break back in and then have Coquard come in with pocket 2's.
TheKillerPenguin is offline  
Old 07-07-16, 09:32 PM
  #1046  
jsk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Houston
Posts: 606

Bikes: Trek Madone, Blue Triad SL, Dixie Flyer BTB

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by mattm
I spoiled today's episode trying to find the stream.

NBC Sports on SlingTV doesn't have it on-demand, which is ridiculous. And the NBC Sports app on Apple TV is riddled with spoilers, yet doesn't have the full stage.
Yep, no streaming or web replay through NBC Sports unless you pay 30 bucks for "NBC Sports Gold" NBC Sports Gold | NBC Sports
jsk is offline  
Old 07-07-16, 10:09 PM
  #1047  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tariffville, CT
Posts: 15,401

Bikes: Tsunami road bikes, Dolan DF4 track

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 383 Post(s)
Liked 179 Times in 101 Posts
I think the sprints have been too fast for organized leadouts. Kittel had two guys but couldn't hold the wheel of his leadout guy. I think Katusha had two guys but Kristoff went backward in the sprint.

McLay was impressive but came up a bit short. He was faster than most everyone else though. I think he'll be a good sprinter. He's the guy that did that nutty sprint earlier this year. He's obviously comfortable with the slicing and dicing of a free for all sprint.

About bike throws - it seems unprofessional not to know/execute basic technical skills. The two skills I see misused or not used are that totally unrelated to actual "physical training" (and therefore ought to be somewhat practiced by everyone who might need them) are bike throws and cornering. Bike throws are sort of a less used skill, but imagine you're a domestique allowed to get into the days' break and then you lose because you don't throw your bike well?

In Cadel's Tour he sprints against Contador for one stage. Contador may not have won the stage even with a great bike throw but he had a pretty poor bike throw (I just watched the DVD again).

In fact Cadel Evans is one rider that seems to be tactically very good. In Cadel's Tour, but also 2006/Floyd, the last two super DVD sets I watched, he's pretty much the only rider that sits out of the wind on switchback climbs. He carefully moves over to the left or right after a significant switchback to shelter from the wind. The other riders simply follow the one in front of them and end up getting hit by what's usually a crosswind (based on flags on the side of the road). Cadel also corners reasonably well.

Which brings me to the other skill some pros should practice. For me cornering poorly is really inexcusable. The two riders that come to mind immediately when thinking about cornering poorly are Levi Leipheimer and Michael Rasmussen. Levi in particular went off the front in some stage and gave away most of his gains on the descent as he screwed up corner after corner after corner. To make it worse he wasn't even alone - there was a guy with him yet Levi wouldn't/couldn't follow his lines. Rasmussen was painfully bad at cornering - you could tell where he was on a descent because there was a gap in front of him after each switchback and a rider diving into the turn way too early each time. These guys train (or dope or whatever) super hard and then give it back without a fight because they don't have some technical stuff down.

There are magnificent technical riders, like Sagan or Cancellara, but not everyone needs to be, or can be, that good. However if you're making a living as a pro then you should have some basic skills like knowing how to corner or throwing your bike at the line well. This simply complements their immense physical talents and lets them eek out the last bit of performance on the bike.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
carpediemracing is offline  
Old 07-08-16, 06:31 AM
  #1048  
Ninny
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: The Gunks
Posts: 5,295
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 686 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Interesting that 2 of the racers you credit for having good technical skills started in off-road racing.
globecanvas is offline  
Old 07-08-16, 06:39 AM
  #1049  
Senior Member
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 13,551
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4194 Post(s)
Liked 2,911 Times in 1,780 Posts
Originally Posted by carpediemracing
However if you're making a living as a pro then you should have some basic skills like knowing how to corner or throwing your bike at the line well. This simply complements their immense physical talents and lets them eek out the last bit of performance on the bike.
That's always been my thought with pro basketball players and free throws. If that's what you make your living doing, why not spend your free time doing it until you get it right? If I suck at free throws (or cornering or whatever), I have an excuse, I have a job/family/other priorities/whatever and don't practice as much as I should. But for me, that's just a hobby. Something I enjoy and put time available into it, but other things come first for me. For them, the basic technical skills of their sport is their job. On the other hand, I'm at my job right now and am posting on BF, so I'm obviously not working on getting the last few minute performance benefit crumbs from my job either.
himespau is offline  
Old 07-08-16, 07:04 AM
  #1050  
Nonsense
 
TheKillerPenguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 13,918

Bikes: Affirmative

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 880 Post(s)
Liked 541 Times in 237 Posts
Originally Posted by himespau
That's always been my thought with pro basketball players and free throws. If that's what you make your living doing, why not spend your free time doing it until you get it right? If I suck at free throws (or cornering or whatever), I have an excuse, I have a job/family/other priorities/whatever and don't practice as much as I should. But for me, that's just a hobby. Something I enjoy and put time available into it, but other things come first for me. For them, the basic technical skills of their sport is their job. On the other hand, I'm at my job right now and am posting on BF, so I'm obviously not working on getting the last few minute performance benefit crumbs from my job either.
Malcolm Gladwell has a good podcast about this. the gist is granny style is best for free throws, but players won't do it because it looks dumb. I bet some of that kind of attitude is present in the pro tour, as in "taking time learn to descend is lame, if I do intervals I can win the watt contest." Or maybe it's just laziness.
TheKillerPenguin is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.