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Old 10-13-14, 01:50 PM   #1
cmh
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10sp to 11sp conversion

I need to convert my rain bike, which has a 10spd dura-ace drive train to 11spd so I can use my 11spd power tap wheel and I'm having a hard time figuring out what I need to change.

Wheels are set with 11spd cassette appropriate dish
Shifters - I know I need these and plan on Ultegra 11spd 6800
Rear derailleur?
Front derailleur?
Chainrings or cranks?

If I have to change all of the above it might be more cost effective to sell my power tap G3 and buy a stages PM. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks for the input.
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Old 10-13-14, 01:55 PM   #2
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I just changed the PowerTap freewheel body from 10sp to 11sp - cost me under $100 (search eBay). The wheels are the same dish.
Front derailleur should work as is.
Technically the chain rings are thinner. I can't tell you if what you have will work.
The chain does need to be 11spd.
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Old 10-13-14, 02:04 PM   #3
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I just changed the PowerTap freewheel body from 10sp to 11sp - cost me under $100 (search eBay). The wheels are the same dish.
Front derailleur should work as is.
Technically the chain rings are thinner. I can't tell you if what you have will work.
The chain does need to be 11spd.
Ah! The chain of course...

Do I need to change the RD or is the difference all in the shifters? (In other words is the cable pull ratio the same?)

Thanks.
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Old 10-13-14, 02:11 PM   #4
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I do not know. I recall hearing you do not, but I don't have 1st hand knowledge (i.e. my 10spd stuff has 10spd shifters and RD). I bought the 11spd group, just had to switch some parts and I do know my 9spd front ring will not work.

A 10speed cassette will work pretty well in an 11speed setup. If you adjust each limit screw, you can hardly tell. Without screw adjustment - they work.
But that assumes you have an 11spd setup and want to use some 10spd stuff.
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Old 10-13-14, 02:43 PM   #5
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why not just get an appropriate 1.8mm spacer to sit behind the 10-speed cassette to make it properly spaced?

certainly less expensive than converting to 11 speed on a bike with a specific use... yeah you lose the comparable cassette between the two, but it'll otherwise function fine.
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Old 10-13-14, 02:47 PM   #6
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It would probably be cheapest to buy an older used Powertap wheel and keep the rain bike 10-speed.

And if you do go 11, why not just go with 105? You can order an entire group from Europe for less than $600.
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Old 10-13-14, 06:29 PM   #7
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I didn't realize Shimano had released an 11 speed 105 group (looks like it was in March - where have I been)! I will go 105 if I go with the 11 spd conversion - I see the whole group is on chain reaction for $469 (although not in 175mm), but I'm wondering if I'd be OK with just new shifters and chain for less $. Looking into another PT wheel but it seems I'm up around $700 for a newer used one.
@cderalow - I don't want to have to swap the cassette from 11 spd to 10 spd to move the PT wheel between my race and rain bikes.

Thanks all.
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Old 10-13-14, 06:37 PM   #8
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10 speed front der and crank should be fine.
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Old 10-13-14, 06:57 PM   #9
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Do you know that ^^^? I know the 9spd rings are too wide. I have a chain and rings here and I could test, but the 11-spd rings are thinner.
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Old 10-13-14, 07:24 PM   #10
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... I see the whole group is on chain reaction for $469 ...
Check Merlin and Ribble. Even lower (lowest) usually.
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Old 10-13-14, 09:21 PM   #11
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All pt wheels made in the last 4ish years support 10 and 11 speed without tools or redishing. The only thing you need is a free hub that supports 11. What's nice about the pt design is that the entire free hub and cassette pop on and off with no tools. It's just an extra 10 seconds when doing a wheel change to pull one cassette/free hub assembly off and put another on. I do this pretty often because I share my favorite wheels between a 10 sp and a 11 sp bike

If you want to upgrade your entire bike to 11, go for it, but don't do it for wheel compatibility. You just need an extra free hub.
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Old 10-13-14, 10:09 PM   #12
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All pt wheels made in the last 4ish years support 10 and 11 speed without tools or redishing. The only thing you need is a free hub that supports 11. What's nice about the pt design is that the entire free hub and cassette pop on and off with no tools. It's just an extra 10 seconds when doing a wheel change to pull one cassette/free hub assembly off and put another on. I do this pretty often because I share my favorite wheels between a 10 sp and a 11 sp bike

If you want to upgrade your entire bike to 11, go for it, but don't do it for wheel compatibility. You just need an extra free hub.
Interesting - how exactly do you pull a freehub assembly off? is it just an outward pull on the whole cassette? This sounds like it may be the way to go for me.
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Old 10-14-14, 04:21 AM   #13
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The G3 and the large hub older models with a 15mm axle can be converted. The older ones cannot unless you want to file the freehub yourself. The axle can be measured but it's pretty easy to tell between the 12mm and 15mm. The 12mm axle ends are silver and have a washer under the end. The 15mm are all black.

You most likely will not need a crank. Shifters, derailleurs, cassette, chain, maybe brake calipers.
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Old 10-14-14, 06:42 AM   #14
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Interesting - how exactly do you pull a freehub assembly off? is it just an outward pull on the whole cassette? This sounds like it may be the way to go for me.
Yes, just pull the cassette straight off. You need to remove the skewer first. The first time I did it, I thought the thing was broken. It's actually a pretty clever design. The hardest part is removing and re-installing the skewer.
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Old 10-14-14, 07:07 AM   #15
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+1, just take off the skewer and pull the cassette straight out with your hand. Could not be easier. The free hub is about $90. I got mine at excelsports, it comes with the 10 speed spacer.

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Yes, just pull the cassette straight off. You need to remove the skewer first. The first time I did it, I thought the thing was broken. It's actually a pretty clever design. The hardest part is removing and re-installing the skewer.
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Old 10-14-14, 03:53 PM   #16
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Yes, just pull the cassette straight off. You need to remove the skewer first. The first time I did it, I thought the thing was broken. It's actually a pretty clever design. The hardest part is removing and re-installing the skewer.
Awesome - thanks!
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Old 10-14-14, 04:05 PM   #17
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+1, just take off the skewer and pull the cassette straight out with your hand. Could not be easier. The free hub is about $90. I got mine at excelsports, it comes with the 10 speed spacer.

Thanks - Ordered!
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