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  1. #1
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    10 speed upgrade

    Perhaps we can deflect some attention from coaching and argue components…

    I've had 7800 on my race bike for a dog's year. It's grown a bit too high maintenance. I'm not sure why, but I seem to keep going through cycles where the chain drops. It gets adjusted and fixed, but it'll start up again. The rear shifting seems to need a bit more english to work as well. It might be time to give up on it. I don't have any interest in going 11 speed, and should I replace stuff I need to do it on the cheap.

    What's my best bet?
    I think I'd just need shifters and derailleurs, unless I went electronic, which still seems like fixing a problem I don't have and I'm not sure it's worth the surcharge.

    Is 7900 any good?

  2. #2
    VeloSIRraptor
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    7900 is fine.
    I don't love it, it has problems (only two cogs up the cassette per lever throw, the brake pull ratio changed- so you should probably replace the brakes when you get new levers, the levers let a whole ton of grit/dirt into the body, a few other non-essential complaints)

    but yeah- it works, no huge issues- just annoyances.
    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    If it comes down to a field sprint, you probably won't win, so don't let it.

  3. #3
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    so what's better?

  4. #4
    Senior Member topflightpro's Avatar
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    You could go to SRAM. 10-speed stuff is still available now.

  5. #5
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    not even a remote consideration.

  6. #6
    soon to be gsteinc... rkwaki's Avatar
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    G I just had a new toy arrive and really like the 7900 (my other is sram red). I as well had no interest in 11 speed.
    I did get di2 and now realize I may never ride mechanical again.
    You can probably find a great deal on 10 speed 7900 grouppos but I would tell you to consider electronic it's unreal.
    "if you ride it the way it's meant to be ridden there's no way any wife is less of a ***** than a bicycle." - gstein

  7. #7
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    I'm going to replace a few pieces for a few hundred bucks. That's it.

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    soon to be gsteinc... rkwaki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    I'm going to replace a few pieces for a few hundred bucks. That's it.
    Shifters, chain, cassette, rear dérailleur
    "if you ride it the way it's meant to be ridden there's no way any wife is less of a ***** than a bicycle." - gstein

  9. #9
    Senior Member wens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkwaki View Post
    Shifters, chain, cassette, rear dérailleur
    If it's Shimano pretty sure 9 & 10 speed rear derailleur has the same cable pull, only needs to be replaced if it's worn out.
    Do you think we're gonna make it? / I don't know unless we try \ you could sit here scared to move / or we could take them by surprise

  10. #10
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkwaki View Post
    Shifters, chain, cassette, rear dérailleur
    Actually just shifters and derailleurs as far as I can tell. Chain and cassettes are new already.

    Did Shimano go from 7900 to 11 speed?

  11. #11
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkwaki View Post
    G I just had a new toy arrive and really like the 7900 (my other is sram red). I as well had no interest in 11 speed.
    I did get di2 and now realize I may never ride mechanical again.
    You can probably find a great deal on 10 speed 7900 grouppos but I would tell you to consider electronic it's unreal.
    it looks like by the time you get done with wires, batteries, charger…it's gotta cost $500 more to go electronic

  12. #12
    Senior Member ips0803's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    Did Shimano go from 7900 to 11 speed?
    Yeah. 7800(10)--->7900/7970(10)--->9000/9070(11) if just dura-ace.

    I don't see you mentioning new cables. Have you tried the new 11 speed cables with your current setup? They are supposed to be very nice (when they don't snap but that's a 9000 shifter issue). Or run ilinks/jagwire teflon.

  13. #13
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    cables have been replaced at reasonable intervals. the stuff is just old. it's been crashed. sooner or later I guess stuff just doesn't work as good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    Perhaps we can deflect some attention from coaching and argue components…

    What's my best bet?
    I think I'd just need shifters and derailleurs, unless I went electronic, which still seems like fixing a problem I don't have and I'm not sure it's worth the surcharge.
    My cronies tell me that both 9000 and 6800 are great - apart from the 11-speed aspect. Hideous costs for replacement chains, rings and cassettes. I personally have no interest in adding one more cog to an already absurdly crowded cassette. BTW: because the 11-speed cassette is wider than 10, if you go that way, you will likely need a new rear wheel.

    Don't know about 7900. But 7800 is good stuff. Your shifter guts may need a spritz of WD40. Try this first. Nevertheless, on a yearly basis you should be replacing the cables and cable housings. And the chain - at least yearly. The bushings in the derailleur pulleys eventually wear out and cause sloppy shifting too. Rings and cassette may also need replacement. I go through 4 chains per year and a cassette and a set of rings. These are simply wear items.

    Check out your drivetrain and make the necessary replacements; after this it should perform like new. The good news is that the bike market seems to be flush with discounted 10-speed parts right now. I am stocking up on on these for a fraction what they went for 2 years ago.

    Apply real judgement when evaluating shop recommendations here. Avoid replacing high quality stuff that could be fixed with maintenance. Watch out for the pitch that "we'll relieve you of your worthless worn-out leftover parts - for appropriate disposal", as they will actually land on Ebay for the mechanics beer-money fund.

  15. #15
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    That's twice in as many days that Safari ate my reply. Cut the crap Apple.

    Mayer your cronies are full of ****. 11 speed wear parts are comparably priced to 10 speed. I pay around $55 for a 6800 cassette and $20 for a 5800 chain. I use them with 9070. Works great.

    Gary I would go 7900. A gearset in good shape should cost around $350. Add $35 for a cable set and $20 for bar tape.
    My 10 speed Shimano sell-off is in the Classifieds-For Sale section.

  16. #16
    The Slow One Alaska Mike's Avatar
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    My coach said my FTP didn't justify the upgrade to 11 speed.

    To be honest, I've spent the last couple months picking up discounted 10 speed components. I use SRAM, and their 11 speed stuff is priced to encourage the switch, but I don't want to replace or re-lace my many wheel sets for an upgrade of somewhat limited benefit (to me). I can get a wide variety of gearing options with 10 speed and I haven't switched to hydraulic brakes (they have issues up here when it gets cold).

    I currently have 3 new 10 speed groupsets (2 Force, 1 Rival), a couple extra front and rear derailleurs, a bunch of new cassettes, chains, and pretty much everything I need to keep my bikes and future bikes running on 10 speed for several years. I haven't bought a complete bike for years, so I likely won't end up with an 11 speed drivetrain by default. Until I find a compelling reason to switch, I likely won't. Shimano electronic shifting interests me, but I'm a little worried about parts availability in the long term for the 10 speed stuff, given the relatively short time electronic shifting and 10 speed drivetrains co-existed and the somewhat limited market placement.

    I can't argue with people wanting to switch, though- especially if they don't have as much 10 speed stuff as I do.
    My self-indulgent bike blog: http://alaskanpackfodder.blogspot.com/

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    Gary I would go 7900. A gearset in good shape should cost around $350. Add $35 for a cable set and $20 for bar tape.
    +1. I've got that on my Look and it's fine.
    Regards,
    Chuck

    Demain, on roule!

  18. #18
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    cables have been replaced at reasonable intervals. the stuff is just old. it's been crashed. sooner or later I guess stuff just doesn't work as good.
    You could probably get away with reusing your existing cables but the lengths will change as the cables go under the bar tape. I'd just plan on a new set.
    My 10 speed Shimano sell-off is in the Classifieds-For Sale section.

  19. #19
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    yeah, I'd just leave that up to the shop. Looks like buying new 7900 shifters and derailleurs would be sub $600. Is 10 speed electronic significantly better than 7900? Kool-aid aside? It seems like for shifters and derailleurs then wires, batteries and charger, I'd be looking at least another $500.

  20. #20
    Senior Member topflightpro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    yeah, I'd just leave that up to the shop. Looks like buying new 7900 shifters and derailleurs would be sub $600. Is 10 speed electronic significantly better than 7900? Kool-aid aside? It seems like for shifters and derailleurs then wires, batteries and charger, I'd be looking at least another $500.

    I have no personal experience with this, but I read in several places that the Ultegra 10-speed electronic actually works better than the Dura Ace 10-speed electronic. Something about Shimano fixed the deficiencies in the Dura-Ace electronic when it came out with Ultregra.

  21. #21
    Ninny globecanvas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    yeah, I'd just leave that up to the shop. Looks like buying new 7900 shifters and derailleurs would be sub $600. Is 10 speed electronic significantly better than 7900? Kool-aid aside? It seems like for shifters and derailleurs then wires, batteries and charger, I'd be looking at least another $500.

    Yes. I bet you can find 30 guys who went electronic and will never go back, for every one who went electronic and said "meh." See rkwaki's post #6 above.

    Because it's now a generation old and the wiring isn't compatible with the new stuff, used Shimano 10 speed electronic kits (7970) can be found for decent prices. I know shovelhd was selling his recently. I thought of selling mine and upgrading to 11-speed electronic, but I couldn't justify spending the money (yet), because what I've got does work perfectly.

  22. #22
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    I'm not likely to buy used. I just don't roll that way. There is plenty of new DA 10 speed stuff in both mechanical and electronic. 10 speed Ultegra electronic seems to be in much shorter supply. Perhaps simply because it's cheaper, or maybe cheaper and better. But for sure it's probably best to not get into something that can't be fixed if you break a part.

    Does Ultegra 10 speed have the same 2 cog limitation that 7900 has? I have ultegra on one of my bikes and never did anything on it that made me think 'wow, this sucks.'

    6770 upgrade kit for a grand.

    edit: actually that's for the internal battery. external is more money. not sure I understand why.
    Last edited by gsteinb; 10-29-14 at 09:49 AM.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Doge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    ...
    edit: actually that's for the internal battery. external is more money. not sure I understand why.
    We (I own them) have both. Internal just shoves in the seat tube with a rubber grommet. Battery is round and simple with a snap plug.
    External has a bracket assembly with lever that locks battery in. Battery is a unique shape and has two pronged robust connectors.

  24. #24
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    yes, I understand the concept. I'm just not sure I get why an externally mounted battery would be more money than an internally mounted battery.

  25. #25
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Because you need the battery mount in addition to the battery and charger. There is logic in the battery mount so it is not just a piece of plastic and metal.

    Something to think about. You cannot upgrade 6770 to 6870 11 speed with an internal battery by just changing the rear derailleur. The firmware was recently changed to take that away.

    7900 derailleurs are pretty easy to find new at a discount but the shifters are harder.

    I sold my 7970 internal gearset with brakes for about $800.
    My 10 speed Shimano sell-off is in the Classifieds-For Sale section.

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