gsteinb

like anything else, it depends. "food should taste good" makes awesome stuff gluten-free or not. my wife's cookies stack up with anything else.

Wesley36

Lol 33 product placement

MDcatV

this. you're not being fair to your coach by self-diagnosing a potential cardiac issue; and you are jeopardizing not only yourself but your coaches practice by not keeping him/her informed. I dont know if I shared this with the list or not, but I had what I have had (by a cardiologist) called supraventricular tachycardia (SVT) events, two of them, one on a saturday and one on the following tuesday during 2013. One was during a race, the other during a hard workout. I was not wearing an HRM during either, so no HR #s or durations, they were both perceived as a feeling like my heart flip flopped in my chest, that my HR raced momentarily, then returned to normal. It scared the **** out of me and I have hypochondriac tendencies perpetuated by being present at two races where vey experienced elite racers died of cardiac arrest (one was a teammate who was in his late 20s and was miraculously resuscitated) so I started seeing a cardiologist. We did stress test, I wore a HR monitor for a week including training and racing trying to duplicate what occurred, and everything tested "normally" so it was written off as likely dehydration induced episode, and the cardio told me to do what I do. So, I've been back at it and have had no recurrence of anything similar. I keep my coach informed of this so he knows. I'd hate for him to prescribe a workout for me, for me to keel over knowing that i've had some type of unexplained cardiac occurrence, and not to have informed him of it. I also wanted to give him the opportunity to turn me down as an athlete if he was not comfortable working with me due to that. You owe it to yourself and to your many others, including your coach, to have this checked out.

to answer your orig ?, it's going to depend upon your coach, their practice (new person starting out or established coach, their focus and whether it's many athletes or more of a boutique service) but for $350/mo. i would expect daily interaction on the level of "nice job" or "how did you feel" or "damn, sorry you crashed, you OK", i.e. more of a review of the post workout comments from the athlete, but probably not detailed file review aside from key (breakthrough) workouts and races.

Heathpack 

Just to be clear, and as I have said before, I did not expect or seek medical advice from him, I honestly don't want him involved with any of that because he will know way less about it than I do. The real question was whether he should have picked up on the HR anomaly and brought it up with me. The consensus here seems to be no and that an athlete reporting a crash then a bad ride should not prompt a coach to take a closer look. That surprises me but if that's the SOP for coaches at least good to know, it helps me decide if its worth paying what I'm paying for a training plan and a "good job". I don't need the "good job" and I can probably buy a training plan for less.

Thinking it through (a process with which, again, this thread has been very helpful), I think my expectation was that hiring a coach gave you someone looking after both the positive and negative impact of training. It seems like the norm is really for the coach to manage the positive training effect and to leave the athlete to look out for the negative effect.

shovelhd

I do not agree with your conclusions. I also don't see what looking at your power files daily has to do with crashing.

gsteinb

I don't think that's true at all. Your contention is that he didn't notice an abnormality in your HR. The situation is pretty specific. You, he, a crash…a bit tough to draw conclusions on coaches and athletes. The assumption also seems to be that coaches are scientists and are trained or knowledgable in looking at all different metrics and what they might point to as regards health. That's probably not the case in a large number of circumstances. Coaches on a large scale know how to manage stress levels and move athletes towards goal. That's the middle ground between having someone who is in your head and body, and a canned training plan which can't respond to how you feel or any anomalies in your health or training.

MDcatV

i've not read all of this thread, but would agree with your expectation and disagree with your conclusion as to the norm.

globecanvas

I have recurring SVT, 1-3 episodes per year for my entire life. My dad and my 10 year old son also have it, but I've never met anyone else IRL who does. I would be happy to talk about this in another thread if it's relevant to anyone.

As you point out, it's terrifying if you don't know what's happening, so there's practically no chance that was what caused the OP's elevated heart rate.

Heathpack 

Well, partially the reason I that was frustrated with the missed HR issue (which I do recognize is something that is more obviously noteworthy to me than it would be to a layperson) is that one week prior I was at the -60 TSB on a day when he scheduled me for a tough interval workout. How does he know that I'm in that out of whack TSB situation if he is not reviewing the data files? This is a serious question, I understand TSB is just a number, I don't want to give the impression that it's my main focus but for the purposes of this thread, it's a succint way of conveying "he gave me a maybe-too-big training load and then some more".

Should he have known that workout on that day was already questionable and then be on the lookout the day prior to see if I should actually do it? Again this is a genuine question, not rhetorical, I am trying to understand what having a coach means because we do finally have a phone conversation scheduled for this evening. The scenario in which this happened is that it was a sequence of Sat 135 mi ride, Sun recovery ride, Mon tough trainer interval workout. I wound up riding the 135 mile ride much harder than usual, in part because I was having fun and in part because some other people were fading & I wound up pulling most of the last 3 hours of the ride. The coach knew the story of the ride because he texted me while I was out. The next day was I think a 40ish mile recovery ride, a bit of a struggle but it was windy, and I didn't think much of the struggle and just reported the wind. Then the next day I was sick, so no trainer workout and two days off the bike.

gsteinb

A coach should know what the trends in TSB are and how they line up with a plan. If you're at -60 they should be aware of it, and have knowledge how it happened unless you're adding stuff in and not sharing it. If they don't know what's going on it might be more of a slight on the individual than on coaching in general.

Heathpack 

How would he know the TSB is -60 unless he looks at the data? I knew it but did not bring it up, because I thought he was looking at the data as it came in.

I guess this is part of my point. I am more likely to get into a situation like the wildly neg TSB because I don't have the high CTL that most of you guys have. So my circumstance seems to warrant closer attention, especially close to my event, which is the source of my frustration in finding out he looks at the data once a week.

gsteinb

looking at the data once a week, and knowing the workouts that are scheduled, he should know the track your TSB is on. Your TSB didn't mysteriously hit -60 unless you did something you shouldn't have, or he doesn't have any clue what he's doing. it's not like you woke up did what you were planned to do and your TSB mysteriously dropped 40 points from where it should be.

perhaps you should have daily interaction and review based on your agreements and fee structure, but I can't fathom that it's necessary. To swing from that expectation to a suggestion that you use a canned plan seems extremely reactive.

wens

Tsb can be predicted if you know what Workouts are upcoming so... If you do the workouts prescribed at the intensity prescribed (which is really part of doing the workout prescribed), your tsb will be planned, give or take the top of the intensity range to the bottom of the intensity range.

shovelhd

I'm with Gary on this. If you need a coach to look at your data daily because you want the freedom to ride outside the prescribed zones and periods, then you need to let your coach know that. If that is really the case then I would question your need for a coach. You'll probably do better on your own.

Believe me, I know how hard it can be to hold back when you are on form, but gains come from measured output and measured rest. Break the formula, and you sacrifice outcomes. On unstructured rides where they are a part of my plan, I will ask for a TSS target and stick to it throughout the ride. If that means backing off and watching others ride away, that's what it means. I have spent the last three months recovering from surgery, and even though I had good base form I was under orders to keep the power down. It's not fun watching Cat5's ride away from you on climbs that you normally would destroy them on, but it is what it is. I take my doctors orders as well as my coaches orders seriously. As a doctor you should know what that means. A coach is no different from a doctor when it comes to orders. My coach will be very clear when he takes off the reins. Otherwise it is by the plan. BTW not completing a workout because you just didn't have enough is OK. If you are failing them repeatedly, that's a problem.

Ygduf

That's one way to do it, but OP isn't even racing, just seeking fitness. Fitness isn't a souffle, there are many paths up that mountain, etc..., etc...

That $$ is a lot/month. I would just hit up @rkwaki for some plans and then drop him once you get the goods!!

Heathpack 

Ohh. I get what the disconnect is here. I was not assigned a workout intensity or TSS target for the 135 mile ride. I was just assigned the long ride and not given any prescription as to how to ride it.

I have actually done every workout he assigned in the manner which he assigned it, except for the 3 days when I was sick and one other set of intervals that I aborted because I was unable to complete.

gsteinb

if you or he is paying attention pre determining what TSS a 135 mile ride would come in at isn't all that difficult. I suppose there's probably only one way to ride a 135 mile ride…finish.

Creatre

I skimmed this thread. But amateurs actually pay $350/month for coaching? Wow. That's more than one of my car payments.

As a coach (for significantly less money), I check my athletes strava every day and review power files in wko+ about once every other week and as needed on specific files for intervals.

gsteinb

I like all my clients facebook ride photos.

Heathpack 

Sorry but I don't have the experience to predict what the TSS would be for a 135 mile ride. I also agree that it would be hard to ride a specific prescription on a long ride like that, especially since I'm a woman and for safety reasons would not be willing to just watch the group ride away.

So it sounds like I have something of a looser plan than many of you might have? I imagine that a looser plan for the type of riding that I do is not necessarily a negative. F

orgetting the concept that I initially thought he was reviewing my data as he got it, is it a reasonable expectation that this coach, with a looser plan and a newby rider, should be reviewing my entire situation, including the data files, more frequently than once a week? Or maybe just once a week if we're in some sort of steady state situation, but more frequently if we're in a changing circumstance like I've had recently. Again, I want to be reasonable when I talk to the guy. Personally, I think more frequent review is necessary to keep me out of trouble, so if its entirely unreasonable, I will probably just drop the coach because I'm paying a lot and getting less than I can be entirely comfortable with.

gsteinb

135 mile ride sounds pretty specific to me. You have a track record that indicates how fast you can ride those long rides. That equates to X TSS an hour. Yeah one might be off a little in the estimate but it would be in the ball park.

MDcatV

that kind of attention is why i keep sending invitations to play slot machine games!

Heathpack 

Well, not that much of a track record actually. And the speed at which I can do that ride is very different from the last time I did it. But I get what you are saying, in my head, I knew about how long the ride would take and I was pretty much right.

So what you are saying is that either the coach knew my TSB would be -60 on that Monday or he could have known if he had thought it through? In which case, he does not need to review the data files after my ride, because he knows where the number will be?

The fact that he knew/could have known the TSB would be around there and left the tough interval workout on the schedule is another thing entirely.

Heathpack 

Interestingly, the ride prescription was for 150 miles but the other people in the group could not finish and the ride was called early. So in theory the TSB number should have been even lower.

gsteinb

If he didn't know you'd have a big negative STB you should get a new coach. -60 is a pretty big deficit and if it isn't intentional it sounds to me like a pretty big disconnect. But yeah, assuming that was the plan all things should be where they were desired.