carpediemracing 

All good.

Also, I have to keep reminding myself, you just started racing. When I was strong enough to even consider going from 300m instead of 150m, I'd been racing 4 years. For the first three years all I thought about was survival. The fact that you're thinking this much/well now bodes well for the future.

Based on your FTP/training comments I think your FTP will end up higher, maybe significantly higher, than you initially estimated. For me, with a bazillion years of racing behind me, I have a general idea of where I belong. You, not so much. Also, although I know a couple women's power numbers here and there, overall there isn't a huge trove of power data for women like there is for men. So, for example, the only woman I know that casually mentioned 1200w peak has at least one each of a National and World title (on the track) to her name. She definitely has some silvers and bronzes, just not sure how many golds.

canuckbelle

Thanks. Yeah. Still *very* new to racing. So I'm super grateful for the help and the soundboard to bounce ideas off of. I just ordered a GoPro and should have it for my circuit race Tuesday. I look forward to uploading that for y'all. The 3/4 women are racing with the 4/5 men.

You're exactly right: right now, a lot of my focus is on simply not blowing up. I don't yet know what I'm able to do *and* I'm improving quickly. So it's a constantly moving target to know what I'm capable of doing. My FTP is apparently up to 225w. I think it could get to 250 by the end of the season. I'm excited for the winter I basically went from doing 17hrs of spin classes in January, to getting a road bike Feb 15th...to riding 200km/week and racing just a few weeks ago. Much room to grow.

My hope this year is to cat up to 3 (even without the requisite points, I'm hoping that my results will speak for themselves given how absurdly difficult it is to find races nearby with enough women to get upgrade points). Then I'm hoping to get to cat 2 by the end of next season. Once I'm there, that'll open up lots of races with qualifying fields. I'm super looking forward to Speed Week next year.

...I also need to get on a team. More specifically, I need to get on a team with women in the categories that I'll be racing in.

carpediemracing 

I'd caution you here. It's not super critical to get on a team for results etc, unless you end up being super marked in larger fields (30-40+ riders). Right now, based on the limited stuff you've posted here, you'll be fine flying solo for a bit.

Obviously a team can help in a number of ways. Information that's not necessarily easy to find (like what's the best place to park when you go do such and such crit, where are the nice bathrooms at this other park race, etc), bike racing info ("I tried that tire but it cut really easily, I use this tire with no problems"), some parts contacts ("You're looking for aero carbon wheels? You know so-and-so is selling their wheel set"), etc. Of course it's also a teammate thing in races, but if you have a 4 rider race and 2 are your teammates, that's no fun either.

I found over the years that being on a team does give me some grounding when it comes to race tactics, the social aspect of things since collectively my teammates know more people than I do, and even where I park at a race (near my teammates of course). However my friends at the races are my friends regardless of team affiliation. I have to admit I joined my current team when it was just starting up, just so I could join a friend who was also joining the same team. However, prior to that year, we raced together when we could, etc, so it wasn't like we weren't racing together already.

Having the same kit does make a difference to me, mentally. Not sure if it's a cultural thing for me or if it's a normal psychological thing, but I'm very aware of what I'm doing win I wear the kit, and I'm very proud to wear it. For me, at races, if I can make a difference for a teammate/friend in a race, I'll do it, even if it means I may not make it to the finish. It's different than working with the same friend while he's wearing a different kit, there's something about putting on a kit that is really significant to me.

Finally a team also has some other implications. Unless you run the team you don't have much choice in the people around you. I know one team that had such a problem with a particular rider that they all went to the team manager (there was someone who volunteered to run the team) and told him that if that one rider wasn't off the team they'd all quit en masse. The manager asked the one rider to leave.

Teams bring a social dynamic to racing that can be very distracting. For many years I raced for myself ("Carpe Diem Racing") or with a team with virtually no active racers (and based 2 hours away from me). It was a bit awkward when I actually saw a teammate show up at a race because most of the time I had no idea who it was, and usually the first I saw of them was when I lined up for the race. We just raced separately, if he made a move I'd move up to cover counters, and I made sure I didn't race against him.

On my current team there are riders that I really don't hang out with. It's a huge team, with 40 riders regularly showing up for the meetings, and another 40-60 riders who for various reasons don't make it. This means you have all sorts of people in the group and ultimately some that I prefer not to be around. The guy that I talked with most in 2014 left for a different team. He's new, like you, and the social distractions of the team were too much for him. He left to shed that excess baggage. We still talk, we're still friends, but when we line up we're wearing different kits. I won't race against him during a race, unless the team needs demanded it, like if we had the leader's jersey and he was in a break that could allow him to take the jersey, my team would have to chase. If it was a one day thing and he went in a break, I'd probably cover moves like he was a teammate. If he could make the move stick then great. If not then I'd go for it in the sprint. I did tell him that if it came down to a sprint I'd go 100% to try and win, whether he's there or not, and he said he'd do the same; our last race together he jumped to cover me as I made a move.

Stas87

Sometimes, teams can become more like a soap opera than a group of people who enjoy racing bikes. Racing wise, a good organized team can make a race fun for their respective racers. The social aspect can be fun or really bothersome depending on the people and personalities involved.

Doge

I agree. I think its more race buddies than team riding.
I see some master teams pulling off the team riding thing, but very few amateur elite, or juniors do it.
And I don't expect it.

topflightpro

I have a buddy whose been racing a very long time - some of you probably raced against him many years ago in Massachusetts or DC. He has one thoughts on teams: "Teams ruin cycling."

I've lost count of how many times I nearly quit not only serving on the board of my team/nonprofit, but the team as a whole because of all the crap involved.

But, I've got a lot of friends through racing. When I couldn't race in 2013, I still went to races, just to hang out.

rideaz

Great points brought up about the team dynamic/implications. I'd like to add one thing though, there's a financial advantage to being on a team for me. I'm not just talking the 20% shop discount but I get help with race fees and expenses, my team helped me to go to Master's Nationals last year, I wouldn't have been able to afford it on my own. This year I got race fee reimbursement, and some other useful stuff that allows me to race more. I have people to carpool with if I want to travel etc.
I'm not sure how it works where you are but here in AZ, a lot of the bike shops have teams. It's a great way to connect not only with a team but the local bike shop too.

carpediemracing 

As far as travel costs for things like Nationals, our Local Association has grants for such things. Most of what the LA spends during the year (other than one salary, website hosting, misc stuff, etc) are travel grants for locals (typically Juniors) to go to Nationals.

Doge

Good for them!

Doge

And that is the main reason we are on a team. Its great. There is money, love, camaraderie - but it is not team cycling.

Team cycling typically works when all riders are employees of the director. It is when riders sacrifice their personal results for a team result. The typical pro stuff we watch. But it is very hard to mimic at the non-pro levels. I don't see it in USA races much at all. And as I posted - I don't expect it, nor think we should.

Team cycling examples:
- a rider gives bike to "better" teammate who has a mechanical. Riders choose to use same pedals and know each others setup.
- a rider burning themselves out so they can't finish, while protecting a teammate.
- (very proud of my son doing this) ride a slow TT so they can be available the next day to ride for their leader.

I think its all super exciting but is not what folks paying the bill themselves should be expected to do. And...it is not noticed or acknowledged by 99% of those watching.

Therefore: Choose a team from folks you like, want to hang with and who go to your races. Don't expect much from the team when racing.

rideaz

I assumed, seeing as both the OP and I are amateurs, it was implied that I was talking about local amateur level or bike shop teams.

Ygduf

My team buys kits for dudes who don't race.

Not all teams are equal!

furiousferret

The issue with my old team was its size (200ish?); it developed a lot of different cliques, so even though you were 'in' you weren't 'in'. They'll let you volunteer for races but you won't get invites to camps or functions. I got along great with everyone and I get why its that way but I don't like it. Crits were kinda stigmatized after a bad crash so no one raced.

The new team I'm on is 30 people or so and most race 3s or 4s, so many races we field actual teams. Even dragged my old teammate over. I didn't know people could outbore my race chatter, so its pretty awesome.

New team has free kits and a lot of great deals (since its a bike shop). They were selling CAAD10 Black Incs for $2500....The idea is we're token employees / salespeople which for the deals we get seem fair.

spdntrxi

your team is pretty cool.. you have cat6?

Doge

Oh well, no. I kind of found this wanderering from Race results and the OP has gone from Cat 3 to Cat 1 is a short time - maybe pro is soon.
So far today in the racing forum: As threads tend to wander I pretty much go with the forum theme "...members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races"

This latest sub sub topic was not from the OP it was this post:

Doge

Part 2. I'll not be so vague. There are a few junior (amateurs) teams (Specialized, LUX, Hot Tubes, Bear Development, Limitless, Hincappie etc.) that try to get the kids to do this team stuff now. I am not a fan of it.

furiousferret

If I get to hang out with @mattm I'm sold.

Ygduf

try to get the kids to do what stuff?

Doge

Team stuff where one sacrifices for another. Where the strongest riders are designated not to win.
There are a number of races this year where the target to win rider was determined (didn't always work) prior to the race.

We are part of that, but I think it is too early.

To talk about another team, the current National Champion in 17-18 was the rabbit to get Adrian Costa, the strongest rider, to make a move. Costa didn't, he got 5th, the rabbit got 1st and that's bike racing. The 2nd strongest rider stayed back to cover Costa. It worked, the team won. But at amateur racing, I would prefer an every-rider-for-themselves race where there is team etiquette, but the racing is left to the racers.

Ygduf

but that's how you get hodge-podge negative and unsafe racing where no one takes chances because everyone is protecting their chances. I dunno. I like team racing, but I guess it's different if you're wanting your kid to get noticed and picked up and that's harder to do if he's working himself over for some lazy sprinter to win!

shovelhd

Both of you have good points. Too much teamwork breeds negative racing. It's cool to shut the field down so your guy can win but it's not a good racing experience for everyone else. We're amateurs. It shouldn't be 100% about your guy winning. I much prefer positive teamwork. Coordinated attacks. Gut wrenching kilo efforts to string out the field and set up your sprinter. Forcing numbers in the break. Stuff like that.

Methinks Doge has issues with how USAC does Devo. What if your kid was the man? Would you feel the same way?

wens

I have issues with how usac does devo too. Needs to get into high schools.

mike868y

yes this. there's a local teacher who started a cross team at his high school and it's one of the most positive and awesome things i've seen first hand in cycling.

https://instagram.com/bchighcx/

canuckbelle

...getting trolled by Doge. Clearly I've been accepted into the community... FFS.

globecanvas

I watched a cat 1 in the pack try to chase down his cat 2 teammate in the break a couple of weeks ago. Didn't make the bridge but dragged the pack far enough across that they brought back the break. I see that stuff all the time, I'm sure you guys see it too.

Teams that execute the basics have a big advantage. That doesn't necessarily mean negative racing, like shovelhd said. One-two attacks, sending your not-#1 guy up the road to see what happens, slingshotting a teammate across a big gap, those are all really cool moves where somebody is sacrificing an opportunity in order to maximize a teammate's opportunities. I really take notice when teams execute.