second race report ... a lesson in tactics
04-12-05, 08:49 PM
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second race report ... a lesson in tactics
Tuesday night training race #2 ... 4/12/05
OK, so I have a lot to learn. Tonight's race was a short one ... ~20 miles, 2 laps of a ~10 mile circuit. Chilly weather (around 40 deg F ... but sunny). Around 40 guys line up for the B race. I have scouted out the course already and if you have a look at the map below, I planned to make a move on the last hill before the finish line. The hill is steep enough and long enough to separate out the field if the pace is kept high. In general, the course is pretty hilly and we had a 10mph breeze out of the North East to contend with.
The race unfolded in relatively non-dramatic fashion. The first lap was pretty fast and random attacks off of the front were well covered by the peloton and by the wind. Seems like everyone sprinted up the hills and out of the corners which was enough to raise the heart rate, but not tire me out. At the end of the first lap, as we climbed the last hill, I felt pretty good. My legs were probably 90% at the start and I managed to spend the first lap in the middle of the peloton if only to conserve energy.
The second lap was actually slower than the first. Seems everyone knew that the big break would come on the last two hills before the finish line (see the map below). I spent almost the entire second lap trying to maintain a position near the front of the peloton. I got boxed in against the rail on two occasions (once when a guy broke off the front) and struggled to get back to the center line to continue advancing to the front. The lone break on the second lap was absorbed easily. I was in the first 15 places at the top of the first climb on the finishing straight and maintained that position through the halfway point of the second climb at which point I stepped on the gas. I crested the last hill in 3rd position, knocked it into the big chain ring and took off for the finish line with everything I had. Three obsticles stood between myself and victory. First, it was a good mile from the crest of the last hill to the line and I would have to work the whole way. Second, it was downhill to the line, and third, I was pegged on the HRM at the crest and would have to gut it out. A quarter mile went by and I was still chugging away in the drops, head down. A half mile went by and as the road flattened before the line, I began to slow a bit ... still head down. 300 yards, 250 yards, ... what's that shadow creaping up behind me? At 200 yards a pack of 15 guys flew by me and sprinted for the line. I was spent ... I stood up and coasted through the line in +20 place. I guess I didn't have the juice to close the deal.
Lessons learned ... I'm not yet strong enough to make a downhill breakaway stick. Perhaps if I gapped the field on the way UP the climb, I would have stood a better chance. More importantly, I'm going to have to talk to the guys who have ridden these routes before. After the ride, one of the guys I occasionally ride with told me that he has always been advised NOT to try to solo from the top of that hill ... primarily because it's downhill to the finish and most guys don't make it.
You live and learn. I doubt I would have placed well in a 15 man field sprint anyway (I'm a climber, not a sprinter), so in a way I'm glad I gave it a shot.
Thanks for reading ...
Mark
OK, so I have a lot to learn. Tonight's race was a short one ... ~20 miles, 2 laps of a ~10 mile circuit. Chilly weather (around 40 deg F ... but sunny). Around 40 guys line up for the B race. I have scouted out the course already and if you have a look at the map below, I planned to make a move on the last hill before the finish line. The hill is steep enough and long enough to separate out the field if the pace is kept high. In general, the course is pretty hilly and we had a 10mph breeze out of the North East to contend with.
The race unfolded in relatively non-dramatic fashion. The first lap was pretty fast and random attacks off of the front were well covered by the peloton and by the wind. Seems like everyone sprinted up the hills and out of the corners which was enough to raise the heart rate, but not tire me out. At the end of the first lap, as we climbed the last hill, I felt pretty good. My legs were probably 90% at the start and I managed to spend the first lap in the middle of the peloton if only to conserve energy.
The second lap was actually slower than the first. Seems everyone knew that the big break would come on the last two hills before the finish line (see the map below). I spent almost the entire second lap trying to maintain a position near the front of the peloton. I got boxed in against the rail on two occasions (once when a guy broke off the front) and struggled to get back to the center line to continue advancing to the front. The lone break on the second lap was absorbed easily. I was in the first 15 places at the top of the first climb on the finishing straight and maintained that position through the halfway point of the second climb at which point I stepped on the gas. I crested the last hill in 3rd position, knocked it into the big chain ring and took off for the finish line with everything I had. Three obsticles stood between myself and victory. First, it was a good mile from the crest of the last hill to the line and I would have to work the whole way. Second, it was downhill to the line, and third, I was pegged on the HRM at the crest and would have to gut it out. A quarter mile went by and I was still chugging away in the drops, head down. A half mile went by and as the road flattened before the line, I began to slow a bit ... still head down. 300 yards, 250 yards, ... what's that shadow creaping up behind me? At 200 yards a pack of 15 guys flew by me and sprinted for the line. I was spent ... I stood up and coasted through the line in +20 place. I guess I didn't have the juice to close the deal.
Lessons learned ... I'm not yet strong enough to make a downhill breakaway stick. Perhaps if I gapped the field on the way UP the climb, I would have stood a better chance. More importantly, I'm going to have to talk to the guys who have ridden these routes before. After the ride, one of the guys I occasionally ride with told me that he has always been advised NOT to try to solo from the top of that hill ... primarily because it's downhill to the finish and most guys don't make it.
You live and learn. I doubt I would have placed well in a 15 man field sprint anyway (I'm a climber, not a sprinter), so in a way I'm glad I gave it a shot.
Thanks for reading ...
Mark
04-12-05, 09:05 PM
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I think your idea of breaking away on the climb is a good one, especially since you are a self-described climber.
04-12-05, 09:12 PM
#3
Announcer
You played your best card. That's bike racing. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
The main thing is that you gave it a go while 90% of the field THOUGHT about giving it a go.
The problem is that you instantly became the carrot in front of the horse's nose.
You might as well have been sponsored by Target because you had one on your back.
If you had a teammate in the field who could sprint, he would have been set up nicely by your move.
Otherwise, it takes huge lungs to succeed with that Joop Zoetemilk Attack of yours.
(Google Joop - I'm too tired to type the story.)
.
The main thing is that you gave it a go while 90% of the field THOUGHT about giving it a go.
The problem is that you instantly became the carrot in front of the horse's nose.
You might as well have been sponsored by Target because you had one on your back.
If you had a teammate in the field who could sprint, he would have been set up nicely by your move.
Otherwise, it takes huge lungs to succeed with that Joop Zoetemilk Attack of yours.
(Google Joop - I'm too tired to type the story.)
.
04-12-05, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by EventServices
You played your best card. That's bike racing. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
The main thing is that you gave it a go while 90% of the field THOUGHT about giving it a go.
The problem is that you instantly became the carrot in front of the horse's nose.
You might as well have been sponsored by Target because you had one on your back.
If you had a teammate in the field who could sprint, he would have been set up nicely by your move.
Otherwise, it takes huge lungs to succeed with that Joop Zoetemilk Attack of yours.
(Google Joop - I'm too tired to type the story.)
.
The main thing is that you gave it a go while 90% of the field THOUGHT about giving it a go.
The problem is that you instantly became the carrot in front of the horse's nose.
You might as well have been sponsored by Target because you had one on your back.
If you had a teammate in the field who could sprint, he would have been set up nicely by your move.
Otherwise, it takes huge lungs to succeed with that Joop Zoetemilk Attack of yours.
(Google Joop - I'm too tired to type the story.)
.
Thanks for the reassurance. I'm convinced I made the right move too. Regardless, I'll remember it long after I would have remembered a group sprint 13th place finish.
No teammates yet. I'm hoping to attrack a little attention as the weeks go by.
Mark
04-12-05, 09:51 PM
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If you don't try it, you don't learn!
You gave it a great go!
You gave it a great go!
04-12-05, 11:40 PM
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Yeah you learned. I find every time I race I learn.
Case in point this past weekend - Dont sit around waiting for something to happen on the last lap of a crit. A friend of mine who I know to be very strong (out sprinted me the day before in a RR for first, I ended up with second), jumped extremely hard on the last lap up a little hill, 2 guys were right up on his wheel, but i hesitated that split second and when I did jump up to him there was just the smallest gap, coming into the last corner I couldn’t close the gap and had to settle for 4th. good result yes, but its frustrating getting so close twice in one weekend and knowing that it could have been different.
Case in point this past weekend - Dont sit around waiting for something to happen on the last lap of a crit. A friend of mine who I know to be very strong (out sprinted me the day before in a RR for first, I ended up with second), jumped extremely hard on the last lap up a little hill, 2 guys were right up on his wheel, but i hesitated that split second and when I did jump up to him there was just the smallest gap, coming into the last corner I couldn’t close the gap and had to settle for 4th. good result yes, but its frustrating getting so close twice in one weekend and knowing that it could have been different.
04-13-05, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by geneman
Tuesday night training race #2 ... 4/12/05
OK, so I have a lot to learn. Tonight's race was a short one ... ~20 miles, 2 laps of a ~10 mile circuit. Chilly weather (around 40 deg F ... but sunny). Around 40 guys line up for the B race. I have scouted out the course already and if you have a look at the map below, I planned to make a move on the last hill before the finish line. The hill is steep enough and long enough to separate out the field if the pace is kept high. In general, the course is pretty hilly and we had a 10mph breeze out of the North East to contend with.
The race unfolded in relatively non-dramatic fashion. The first lap was pretty fast and random attacks off of the front were well covered by the peloton and by the wind. Seems like everyone sprinted up the hills and out of the corners which was enough to raise the heart rate, but not tire me out. At the end of the first lap, as we climbed the last hill, I felt pretty good. My legs were probably 90% at the start and I managed to spend the first lap in the middle of the peloton if only to conserve energy.
The second lap was actually slower than the first. Seems everyone knew that the big break would come on the last two hills before the finish line (see the map below). I spent almost the entire second lap trying to maintain a position near the front of the peloton. I got boxed in against the rail on two occasions (once when a guy broke off the front) and struggled to get back to the center line to continue advancing to the front. The lone break on the second lap was absorbed easily. I was in the first 15 places at the top of the first climb on the finishing straight and maintained that position through the halfway point of the second climb at which point I stepped on the gas. I crested the last hill in 3rd position, knocked it into the big chain ring and took off for the finish line with everything I had. Three obsticles stood between myself and victory. First, it was a good mile from the crest of the last hill to the line and I would have to work the whole way. Second, it was downhill to the line, and third, I was pegged on the HRM at the crest and would have to gut it out. A quarter mile went by and I was still chugging away in the drops, head down. A half mile went by and as the road flattened before the line, I began to slow a bit ... still head down. 300 yards, 250 yards, ... what's that shadow creaping up behind me? At 200 yards a pack of 15 guys flew by me and sprinted for the line. I was spent ... I stood up and coasted through the line in +20 place. I guess I didn't have the juice to close the deal.
Lessons learned ... I'm not yet strong enough to make a downhill breakaway stick. Perhaps if I gapped the field on the way UP the climb, I would have stood a better chance. More importantly, I'm going to have to talk to the guys who have ridden these routes before. After the ride, one of the guys I occasionally ride with told me that he has always been advised NOT to try to solo from the top of that hill ... primarily because it's downhill to the finish and most guys don't make it.
You live and learn. I doubt I would have placed well in a 15 man field sprint anyway (I'm a climber, not a sprinter), so in a way I'm glad I gave it a shot.
Thanks for reading ...
Mark
OK, so I have a lot to learn. Tonight's race was a short one ... ~20 miles, 2 laps of a ~10 mile circuit. Chilly weather (around 40 deg F ... but sunny). Around 40 guys line up for the B race. I have scouted out the course already and if you have a look at the map below, I planned to make a move on the last hill before the finish line. The hill is steep enough and long enough to separate out the field if the pace is kept high. In general, the course is pretty hilly and we had a 10mph breeze out of the North East to contend with.
The race unfolded in relatively non-dramatic fashion. The first lap was pretty fast and random attacks off of the front were well covered by the peloton and by the wind. Seems like everyone sprinted up the hills and out of the corners which was enough to raise the heart rate, but not tire me out. At the end of the first lap, as we climbed the last hill, I felt pretty good. My legs were probably 90% at the start and I managed to spend the first lap in the middle of the peloton if only to conserve energy.
The second lap was actually slower than the first. Seems everyone knew that the big break would come on the last two hills before the finish line (see the map below). I spent almost the entire second lap trying to maintain a position near the front of the peloton. I got boxed in against the rail on two occasions (once when a guy broke off the front) and struggled to get back to the center line to continue advancing to the front. The lone break on the second lap was absorbed easily. I was in the first 15 places at the top of the first climb on the finishing straight and maintained that position through the halfway point of the second climb at which point I stepped on the gas. I crested the last hill in 3rd position, knocked it into the big chain ring and took off for the finish line with everything I had. Three obsticles stood between myself and victory. First, it was a good mile from the crest of the last hill to the line and I would have to work the whole way. Second, it was downhill to the line, and third, I was pegged on the HRM at the crest and would have to gut it out. A quarter mile went by and I was still chugging away in the drops, head down. A half mile went by and as the road flattened before the line, I began to slow a bit ... still head down. 300 yards, 250 yards, ... what's that shadow creaping up behind me? At 200 yards a pack of 15 guys flew by me and sprinted for the line. I was spent ... I stood up and coasted through the line in +20 place. I guess I didn't have the juice to close the deal.
Lessons learned ... I'm not yet strong enough to make a downhill breakaway stick. Perhaps if I gapped the field on the way UP the climb, I would have stood a better chance. More importantly, I'm going to have to talk to the guys who have ridden these routes before. After the ride, one of the guys I occasionally ride with told me that he has always been advised NOT to try to solo from the top of that hill ... primarily because it's downhill to the finish and most guys don't make it.
You live and learn. I doubt I would have placed well in a 15 man field sprint anyway (I'm a climber, not a sprinter), so in a way I'm glad I gave it a shot.
Thanks for reading ...
Mark
Good job...and you had fun and learned and you have a good handle on your conditioning level...
BTW...if you get off that little bike, you can get faster...
04-13-05, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by roadwarrior
Mark, since you were in the red on your HRM (per your comment) you slowed as lactate built up, and all the determination in the world will not overcome what's going on in your muscles....combine that with a pack that can ride quicker than a single...also, compare your course to Milan-SanRemo....lots of big hills, then the Poggio, but it's still a sprinters race at the end. Your friend was right in that a downhill finish will result in a sprinters race...
Good job...and you had fun and learned and you have a good handle on your conditioning level...
BTW...if you get off that little bike, you can get faster...
Good job...and you had fun and learned and you have a good handle on your conditioning level...
BTW...if you get off that little bike, you can get faster...
I guess that makes me Paulo Bettini ... I"ll take it.
Got a Cannondale you want to sell me?
Mark
04-13-05, 07:24 AM
#9
Tiocfáidh ár Lá
It's hard to attack sucessfully on a down hill. But some times it is worth a try and you are now both mentally and physically stronger for doing it.
04-13-05, 10:35 AM
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Just ride.
You gave it a shot... anybody can be pack fill. Maybe next time get someone to go with you. Give him a fast wheel up the climb, he jumps at the crest and you fall in.
04-13-05, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by geneman
Tuesday night training race #2 ... 4/12/05
You live and learn. I doubt I would have placed well in a 15 man field sprint anyway (I'm a climber, not a sprinter), so in a way I'm glad I gave it a shot.
Thanks for reading ...
Mark
You live and learn. I doubt I would have placed well in a 15 man field sprint anyway (I'm a climber, not a sprinter), so in a way I'm glad I gave it a shot.
Thanks for reading ...
Mark
If you would have been part of the train (as you're a climber) you probably wouldn't have had the kick at the end to place any different than you did so why not go for it...
04-13-05, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by divekrb
Downhill attacks, unless they are technical descents and you have big stuff (or are scary steep), are 99% doomed because of all the drafting. Magnificent, yet futile gesture (spoken from the Crown Prince of Futile Gestures).
If you can't be "magnificant" then what's the point? Win, lose, ... doesn't much matter. I have this mental image of myself, head down, shooting off the front, putting a sizable gap on the field. That's enough to keep me coming back.
This is a fun sport!
Mark
04-13-05, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Mojo GoGo
Mark,
If you would have been part of the train (as you're a climber) you probably wouldn't have had the kick at the end to place any different than you did so why not go for it...
If you would have been part of the train (as you're a climber) you probably wouldn't have had the kick at the end to place any different than you did so why not go for it...
Absolutely right. The "sprinter" that I followed to the line last week was in the pack of 15 guys that passed me and he didn't even place in the top ten. I did the right (even if futile) thing.
Mark
04-14-05, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by geneman
I guess that makes me Paulo Bettini ... I"ll take it.
Got a Cannondale you want to sell me?
Mark
Got a Cannondale you want to sell me?
Mark
04-14-05, 09:56 AM
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I admire your attack towards the end. A lot of people just don't or wait too long to make a move. Sometimes you just gotta say "the heck with it" and take off like a mad man 
on another note... you should ditch that HRM during the race or cover the display with tape. in the past i've found that i'd actually backoff a bit if i saw my HR elevated out of my "comfort zone"... you might find a little more "in reserve" if you don't know how fast your heart is beating. though your legs will be screaming, sometimes you just gotta grit those teeth and suck it up if you need to bridge a gap or make a break stick.
Great job and good luck on future races!
on another note... you should ditch that HRM during the race or cover the display with tape. in the past i've found that i'd actually backoff a bit if i saw my HR elevated out of my "comfort zone"... you might find a little more "in reserve" if you don't know how fast your heart is beating. though your legs will be screaming, sometimes you just gotta grit those teeth and suck it up if you need to bridge a gap or make a break stick.
Great job and good luck on future races!
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04-14-05, 10:12 AM
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My experience was that it's pretty tough to make a successful break in a 20 mile race. The race is so short that everyone's going full out the entire time and any movement off the front is acted on immediately.
04-17-05, 06:55 PM
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it was a training race, right? well, it sounds like you got some good training out of it and a good story to tell as well. so, good job, man!
04-18-05, 06:48 AM
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Power in numbers I guess.
How different would things have been had you hung with those guys, saving at least some energy for the end? Sprinting work in your future perhaps?
The point is...YOU WERE THERE at the end. That's awesome. That's a place I'll only be in my dreams, and you did it.
Keep crankin' and congrats on a great race. I enjoyed reading your take on it because that's the only way I'll ever experience anything like that.
How different would things have been had you hung with those guys, saving at least some energy for the end? Sprinting work in your future perhaps?
The point is...YOU WERE THERE at the end. That's awesome. That's a place I'll only be in my dreams, and you did it.
Keep crankin' and congrats on a great race. I enjoyed reading your take on it because that's the only way I'll ever experience anything like that.
04-18-05, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Hipcycler
Power in numbers I guess.
How different would things have been had you hung with those guys, saving at least some energy for the end? Sprinting work in your future perhaps?
How different would things have been had you hung with those guys, saving at least some energy for the end? Sprinting work in your future perhaps?
Thanks for your support!
Mark
04-18-05, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by geneman
Absolutely right. The "sprinter" that I followed to the line last week was in the pack of 15 guys that passed me and he didn't even place in the top ten. I did the right (even if futile) thing.
Mark
Mark
I'm now thinking that next race I'm going early and I'll let the group try and catch me. I think there's a huge mental advantage with being in front by any margin on the finish straight. I know it usually psyches me out anyway.
04-18-05, 05:41 PM
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I have a question.... Why would it be hard to attack on a downhill? Is it harder to accelerate going downhill?
Ok let me explain my question better...
You are going to accelerate naturally because of gravity when going downhill. So is whoever may be in front of or behind you on that same hill.
So, is it harder to accelerate, in relation to the natural acceleration due to gravity, when going downhill thus making it a "gutsy move" to attack on a downhill slope?
Ok let me explain my question better...
You are going to accelerate naturally because of gravity when going downhill. So is whoever may be in front of or behind you on that same hill.
So, is it harder to accelerate, in relation to the natural acceleration due to gravity, when going downhill thus making it a "gutsy move" to attack on a downhill slope?
04-18-05, 10:42 PM
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See ya'lls tactics are all wrong, as well as your strategery. What he really needs to do is bribe/sponsor the race coordinator to finish the race at the top of the hill....
04-19-05, 06:41 AM
#23
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Originally Posted by CCFISH81
See ya'lls tactics are all wrong, as well as your strategery. What he really needs to do is bribe/sponsor the race coordinator to finish the race at the top of the hill....
That's today's route ... he! he! he!
I pre-rode the course with Mojo GoGo last Saturday and it's all uphill to the finish. Should be tough!
Mark
