Old 10-17-04, 01:54 AM
  #15  
slvoid
2-Cyl, 1/2 HP @ 90 RPM
 
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Bikes: 04' Specialized Hardrock Sport, 03' Giant OCR2 (SOLD!), 04' Litespeed Firenze, 04' Giant OCR Touring, 07' Specialized Langster Comp

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Originally Posted by Erick L
Why put a windproof fabric anywhere but on the outside? The fleece is there to trap heat and the windproof layer is there to keep the wind from taking the trapped heat away. Look at the illustration from Gore website, the wind goes through the fleece layer and is stopped by the windstopper layer... might as well wear the windstopper layer alone! Unfortunately, windstopper has to be laminated to some other fabric. To claim their fleece is warmer, Gore compares their fleece to non-windstopper fleece. Of course it's warmer, but it's no warmer than a cheap fleece and a cheapo-deluxe wind-jacket. Actually, with a normal wind jacket, you can get away with a much thinner fleece (or just a base layer) than a bulky windstopper fleece. Windstopper is also warmer in the sense that wearing a plastic is also warm, but not very comfortable or breathable (ok, I admit it breathes better than plastic).

Anyway, I don't like it.
The illustration is of a WindstopperMEMBRANE laminated to a piece of protective outer fabric. NOWHERE, ANYWHERE in there does it say "fleece." NOWHERE.
For all I care, the outer fabric could be a thin piece of nylon, which by sheer coincidence is how my arcteryx jacket is made. It doesn't get anymore exposed than that. And mine, like many of the newer designs, is laminted to STRETCHY backing. No more bulky flappy jackets. Fits like a glove. And the inside has fleece laminted to it, no more plasticky feel like the ones cheaper jackets have.

Actually I don't need a fleece jacket under a windstopper jacket. In fact, all I need is the base layer and a windstopper jacket and I'm good. In fact, some windstopper jackets have the lightest weight fleece avaliable (50 weight?) laminated to the inside of it, repeat, LIGHTEST. The whole windstopper jacket ends up being LIGHTER and LESS bulky than a "thin" fleece jacket inside another "wind-jacket."

If by "wind-jacket" you mean a cheap piece of nearly open weave nylon with the DWR on it, good luck when the rain hits. I also like the fact that I have one slim form fitting stretchy jacket that moves with me and fits me like a glove rather than two bulky jackets that I have to worry about. But, no, you're right. If you can't afford it, then you can get similar performance with just a thin fleece jacket and a wind-jacket. However, if you can afford it and want just one jacket to do it all, modern windstopper (Gore Industries), powershield (Malden Mills; which personally I like the feel of better), Dynamic and Drynamic (Schoeller Textiles), and the like, are all good choices for performance.

I rode with a guy today who had a $7000 Merlin titanium bike (next to my $500 aluminium) and he said to me, "I can probably get by with an aluminium with 105 or ultegra since they're essentially still derailleurs, shifters, and cogs but I thought to myself, if I could afford a full dura-ace setup, then why not go for it and never look back." It's kinda like that.

Last edited by slvoid; 10-17-04 at 02:08 AM.
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