yeah, varsities are curious beasts. kind of resemble (very shoddy) road bikes, but weigh more than most downhill rigs. Handle less well too. Raleigh probably made the classiest looking hi-ten bikes, i think. Some records and grand prix are actually pretty easy on the eye. I also have a centurion with butted hi-ten, it actually does feel a little lighter than other hi-ten bikes i've had. For what its worth, i agree that very nice cro-mo (the nicest frame i've ever owned was made from tange 1, if that means anything) is obviously lighter than hi-ten, and rides better, but i think the difference is often greatly exaggerated