Originally Posted by
The Human Car
I'm really not sure what's illogical about designating a portion of the roadway where 95% of cyclists travel anyway as a bikeway. Strong opposition to something that really does not amount to anything greater then an ant hill is not educational, it's splitting hairs and a waste of time. By your logic we should also oppose all speed limit signs because they cannot correctly state the maximum safe speed under all circumstances and opposing them will be educational so therefore increase safety.
Originally Posted by
kob22225
PS
A large percentage of bicyclist now do not ride where they should, when they should. That 95% statement actually helps make the case against drawing solid lines circles and arrows around, with a paragraph on the back of each example of poor behavior/location.
Originally Posted by
The Human Car
PS maybe but that's why there is no significant change in safety as there is not much of a difference between before and after. But what if bikeway engineering closely mimicked VC default riding position, what then?
I think HC's point -- paraphrasing here -- that we should pick our battles is an important one. Moreover, in reference to my point about empirical evidence, even through we can identify specific effects of say a bikeway, I thought that there was some evidence suggesting that the total effect of certain projects reduced collisions. It appears to me that there is enough noise regarding human interaction with traffic engineering that some "illogical" ideas end up being improvements and vice versa. Making a big stink on matters with little conclusive empirical evidence -- you should be able to reverse the null hypothesis and come to the same meaningful conclusion -- or that least strong theoretical concerns with some weak empirical evidence when viewed on a grand scale just reduces one's credibility and ability to communicate effectively over the long haul, IMO.
Anyway, we don't agree on one of your main assumptions regarding demise of suburbia ... at least in the reasonable future -- say 20/30 years. As always, there will be some adjustments and cyclical changes perhaps linked to economic and demographic phenomenon, but there is a lot of wiggle room in how society adjusts to some global concerns.