Oh I don't need to HTFU I know my limits and climbing is not an issue for me either. Yes I push flats so I can wear them out to pass them on the hills. I just don't brag about it. No I don't climb mountains don't have to were I live. I do know guys who go to southern Cal every year to ride in the fall and they do all the mountains and from what they say, and this is just second hand is. Yes they are non stop climbing but at steady grade sure there is some high grades but for the most part around 4-7%. Again second hand but from what they say it's tougher on some of our sections of roads were we have short steep climbs like 1km long but average 11% with kicks up to 16%. As for flats, what I call flats may be different than what you think and hey reality is we'll never ride with one another so we can say whatever we want to each other.