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Gaps in Bike Lane Routes

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Gaps in Bike Lane Routes

Old 04-15-15, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by invisiblehand
Burley Trailers are offset in the rear. The offset makes sense if you want to lay the bike on nondrive side to protect the derailer. FWIW, pulling a two child trailer means you take up a considerable amount of lateral space. Add in some wiggle for adjustments and turns.
This is why bakfiets are so popular (and why I have one). Much easier than a trailer and more enjoyable to ride. Kids are also up front and easier to talk to rather than behind staring at dads hairy rump.
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Old 04-16-15, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by CrankyOne
Certainly not if you don't fight for them.
Certainly not, regardless.

Originally Posted by CrankyOne
Based on it taking The Netherlands 40 years, I'll likely not live to see 40 years of further implementation but I do hope to see 20 or 30 years worth.
It was "40 years" starting from an already well-established cycling culture. The US lost that (generously) in around 1920.

Originally Posted by CrankyOne
I look forward to safer and better bicycling in 5 years. Even more in 10, and more in 20 when I'll really be old and decrepit (and hopefully still riding). I also hope that our generation can leave a solid legacy of safe facilities to the next generation.
No one is arguing (actually) against "safer and better".
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Old 04-16-15, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by genec
I am not going to bother with your continued empty responses... Sure the Dutch have highways... and wonderful connectivity for cyclists too.

YOU HAVE YET TO OUTLINE A SOLUTION TO INCREASE CYCLING RIDERSHIP IN THE US. THUS, YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM.

As I said... Tell me what you would do to get more people riding bikes... Go ahead... we are all waiting for your plan. Present it.


Bad bicycling facilities that are bad aren't a "solution". You having no clue why that particular case is bad really doesn't recommend you as any sort of expert to listen to. (To be clear, I'm not representing myself as an expert.)

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Old 04-16-15, 10:43 AM
  #279  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker


Bad bicycling facilities that are bad aren't a "solution". You having no clue why that particular case is bad really doesn't recommend you as any sort of expert to listen to. (To be clear, I'm not representing myself as an expert.)
So you continue to offer no solutions... just mindless criticism and nothing more. I outlined exactly in a very succinct manner what I think should be done in this post:
https://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-s...l#post17721969

I also mentioned it in varying degrees throughout this thread, and have maintained that same goal in thread after thread...

You offer nothing. And that is what will result with your mindset... NOTHING.

You still have not answered the question... "what would you do to increase bicycle ridership in the US?"
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Old 04-16-15, 10:54 AM
  #280  
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Originally Posted by CrankyOne
This is why bakfiets are so popular (and why I have one). Much easier than a trailer and more enjoyable to ride. Kids are also up front and easier to talk to rather than behind staring at dads hairy rump.
Where are bakfiets "so popular"? Certainly nowhere in the U.S. What is your definition of "so popular"? My guess at bakfiet use in U.S. is less than.00001% of total bicycling trips or distance, and probably less than .01% of children transported by bicycles in U.S. are carried in a bakfiet.

Outside of a few trendy places of so-called bicycle culture I doubt most bicyclists in U.S., even those with children, have ever seen or heard of a bakfiet and probably few would consider paying the bakfiet price in dollars and physical effort and overnight parking issues for an expensive specialized bicycle impractical for any kind of riding beyond short rides on flat land from a garage or indoor street level parking to a nearby destination and return to a place that requires no lifting of the bike for storage or parking.
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Old 04-16-15, 11:08 AM
  #281  
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Originally Posted by genec
You still have not answered the question... "what would you do to increase bicycle ridership in the US?"
Not directed at me but the biggest change would be housing policy which makes it harder to create relatively dense -- not necessarily Manhattan but clearly more people would live in say San Francisco if taller buildings could be built in a reasonable fashion -- areas making walking and cycling more advantageous.

FWIW, I think infrastructure can make a difference too. Especially on fast roads, bridges, and major traffic zones. But traffic calming and legislative measures would have a meaningful impact in many situations.
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Old 04-16-15, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by CrankyOne
This is why bakfiets are so popular (and why I have one). Much easier than a trailer and more enjoyable to ride. Kids are also up front and easier to talk to rather than behind staring at dads hairy rump.
I've seen a handful around here. But they take up a ton of space. The front basket is very easy to load. Much better than a long tail, IMO.

After testing a long tail for an extended period, I decided that the trailer is a better fit for us. It moves across several of our bikes, is very easy to load, and it stores compactly. Oh ... it's also cheap.
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Old 04-16-15, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by invisiblehand
Not directed at me but the biggest change would be housing policy which makes it harder to create relatively dense -- not necessarily Manhattan but clearly more people would live in say San Francisco if taller buildings could be built in a reasonable fashion -- areas making walking and cycling more advantageous.

FWIW, I think infrastructure can make a difference too. Especially on fast roads, bridges, and major traffic zones. But traffic calming and legislative measures would have a meaningful impact in many situations.
San Francisco already has a higher modal cycling share than most of CA... at 3.4%, according to surveys done in 2011... and that city has a very extensive public transit network. In fact, I never drive in SF when I visit there... it is too easy to use other means.

Couple of links regarding cycling modal share... the first from SF
Cycling Mode Share Data for 700 Cities
The second from a report outlining modal share for some 700 cities around the world.
Cycling Mode Share Data for 700 Cities (but some of this data is quite old.
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Old 04-16-15, 11:21 AM
  #284  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Outside of a few trendy places of so-called bicycle culture I doubt most bicyclists in U.S., even those with children, have ever seen or heard of a bakfiet and probably few would consider paying the bakfiet price in dollars and physical effort and overnight parking issues for an expensive specialized bicycle impractical for any kind of riding beyond short rides on flat land from a garage or indoor street level parking to a nearby destination and return to a place that requires no lifting of the bike for storage or parking.
Oh yeah ... since I hurt myself, getting a bakfiet -- or the trailer -- with two kids up the modest hills around here is laughable. I imagine if one was willing to pony up the bucks for an electric assist it would be much more palatable. With some regret, I just put the kids in the car for big food shopping or similar.
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Old 04-16-15, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by genec
San Francisco already has a higher modal cycling share than most of CA... at 3.4%, according to surveys done in 2011... and that city has a very extensive public transit network. In fact, I never drive in SF when I visit there... it is too easy to use other means.
... and if a bunch more people lived there there would be lots and lots more folks cycling and walking. They don't because the prices are wacky -- perhaps other reasons too -- so they move out to Richmond and take the BART into the city.
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Old 04-16-15, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by spare_wheel
like most cycling-specific statutes this is vague and open to interpretation by law enforcement.
Kinda. Like most traffic statues period, it is vague so as to apply to the broadest possible set of circumstances. It is actually left open to the interpretation of the bicyclist, giving them the freedom to determine when and where it is or is not safe for a vehicle to pass them in the same lane, and position themselves accordingly. Thanks to America's innocent until proven guilty legal system, any member of law enforcement who issues a citation for violating that statute would then have the burden of proof upon them to prove that the lane is wide enough for another vehicle to pass the bicyclist safely in the same lane, which means that even should a citation be issued, it is virtually guaranteed that it would then be dismissed summarily upon being challenged, which really means just bothering to show up for your court date.

For what it's worth, beyond measuring by eye and common sense (if it feels like people are passing dangerously close to you, they probably are and you should take the lane), in order for a road to be wide enough to be considered safe to share, it should be 14', giving the cyclist the 6' nearest the road edge for use and buffer, and the motorist the 8' from the center line going inward. Most roads are 10' wide, designed just for a single vehicle, so a cyclist using 3' of space (total, curb to edge of body) and a vehicle 6' of space (edge of mirror to edge of mirror plus minor buffer for center line) there is only a foot of space between them. Meaning a "typical" lane is too narrow to share.

Edit:
Originally Posted by kickstart
That sounds a lot more pragmatic than those who take it a step further with "control the lane" and "I am traffic" where all other road users are always subservient to a cyclists whims and limitations.
Not really. More like bicyclists are not inherently subservient to vehicle's whims. If you follow along that bicyclists are always subservient to vehicles on the road, and always subservient to pedestrians on the sidewalk, where (other than designated bike lanes, which don't exist around me) do you expect people to ride? Unless you don't, and you're just grousing about the fact that bicyclists exist? The roads, being designated for public use, are meant to be shared by all who wish to legally use them. Just because some people are capable of going faster than others does not give them superiority, just like the fact that others are not capable of going as fast does not give them superiority. Everyone is meant to follow the laws and obey the rules, and if everyone just does that, there's no problem.

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Old 04-16-15, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Where are bakfiets "so popular"?
Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, ... Very roughly I'd guess bakfiets outnumber trailers at least 50 to 1. On an average day in The Netherlands I'll see 25 to 50 bakfiets and maybe 1 trailer. In the Twin Cities (Minneapolis / St Paul) I'd see about one of each per week. My guess is that there are 10 times as many trailers in the Twin Cities but that people with bakfiets ride them more often. In Florida I see about one trailer per month and no bakfiets. In NYC about three trailers and one bakfiets per week.
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Old 04-16-15, 03:59 PM
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I choose a 1-kid trailer for a few reasons including that I dropped kid off at daycare/school on way to work and left trailer at school so I didn't need to take it empty the extra 11mi each way to/from school. Also have extra bike hitch so it can be used by my wife as well, so she could ride over to school if I couldn't make it in time and pick him up as trailer was already there. I also use it for utility, groceries, etc.
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Old 04-16-15, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by invisiblehand
I've seen a handful around here. But they take up a ton of space. The front basket is very easy to load. Much better than a long tail, IMO. After testing a long tail for an extended period, I decided that the trailer is a better fit for us. It moves across several of our bikes, is very easy to load, and it stores compactly. Oh ... it's also cheap.
I think a bakfiets takes up considerable less space than a bike + trailer (unfolded). Cost and storage are certainly issues. We debated for a couple of years before we bought ours (from Workcycles) but glad we did buy it. The exchange rate is a lot better now so they're around $2k with shipping which is about $600 less than what we paid. The new Workcycles Kr8 is better too.
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Old 04-16-15, 04:05 PM
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Ha ha, I just looked up the bakfiet. No way I'm gonna buy and find room to store a whole new bike that will get limited utilization. I only own and have room for two grown up bikes and my kid's kid bike.
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Old 04-16-15, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Outside of a few trendy places of so-called bicycle culture I doubt most bicyclists in U.S., even those with children, have ever seen or heard of a bakfiet and probably few would consider paying the bakfiet price in dollars and physical effort and overnight parking issues for an expensive specialized bicycle impractical for any kind of riding beyond short rides on flat land from a garage or indoor street level parking to a nearby destination and return to a place that requires no lifting of the bike for storage or parking.
They're not for everyone but the canards you've thrown up aren't very valid.

They're expensive, about $2,000. Many folks on here spend that or twice or thrice that for a CF road bike though. How expensive is a car? How expense are bus/train passes? If a bakfiets is a valid option for someone then it's actually quite inexpensive.

Physical effort? Easier than a trailer on flat and downhill. Steeper uphill they're a bit tougher because you're sitting more upright but not extremely more difficult than a trailer. For people that own them the benefits far outweigh the slight bit of more physical effort (assuming their route even has a steep enough hill for this to be an issue).

Overnight parking issues / garage / indoor street level parking? They're Dutch, not fragile recreational bikes. They're designed to be left outside in the elements all year for decades. Storing a bakfiets or bike indoors in The Netherlands is quite rare. There's no reason to store them inside in the U.S. If going up more than a few steps was critical though I don't think a bakfiets is the best choice.

Short flat rides? Really? I routinely do a 9 mile round trip in mine that does include some hills. I know many people who ride much farther and hillier routes.

Impractical? For someone who lives in a brownstone and who's landlord requires all bikes to be carried up the front steps and never kept outside then they're probably not the ticket (though I do know one person who rents space 3 houses away from his in Brooklyn). For many people though they are quite practical.
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Old 04-17-15, 12:44 PM
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It is actually left open to the interpretation of the bicyclist, giving them the freedom to determine when and where it is or is not safe for a vehicle to pass them in the same lane, and position themselves accordingly. Thanks to America's innocent until proven guilty legal system, any member of law enforcement who issues a citation for violating that statute would then have the burden of proof upon them to prove that the lane is wide enough for another vehicle to pass the bicyclist safely in the same lane, which means that even should a citation be issued, it is virtually guaranteed that it would then be dismissed summarily upon being challenged, which really means just bothering to show up for your court date.
This is wishful thinking. In OR citations given under questionable circumstances are, IME, frequently decided against the cyclist.

To illustrate specific examples: A a cyclist was cited for riding on the white line of a bike lane (he moved over due to road debris). The judge and citing LEO both scoffed at the idea that a cyclist had the right to exit a bike lane. And in another instance, a lady riding in a bike lane was right hooked and the traffic judge pro tem decided that the driver was not at fault I view current cycling traffic law to be a joke and when given a choice will always choose to violate irrelevant to safety cycling-specific statutes (if its safe to do so). I have yet to be cited once despite flagrantly violating *THE LAW* in full cite of LEOs on a routine basis.
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Old 04-17-15, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by CrankyOne
They're not for everyone but the canards you've thrown up aren't very valid.
Correct not for everyone,and talking about the U.S., hardly for anyone despite the fact that You ride one; for all the good reasons that you wish to dismiss as canards.
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