Gaps in Bike Lane Routes
#101
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The value of your life doesn't change based on the way you travel. - Dawn Schellenberg (SDOT)
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#102
genec
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That same "inadequate planning" also translates to the roads you share to get to your destination.
#103
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I'm hoping to advocate the building of a 50 mile "bike route" between Eugene and McKenzie Bridge. I have no doubt that the main highway gets over 1000 cars a day, but perhaps only 1 or 2 bikes a day do the whole 50 mile ride. It is hard to justify millions of dollars worth of infrastructure for a few hundred bikes a year, although the numbers may well increase somewhat if the infrastructure was put in place.
#104
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The roads are public.
While some sidewalks with bike parking are public (downtown Portland), I was thinking of private stores that just forget to put in bike parking, or not enough of it. Perhaps there need to be code changes (if they don't already exist). The government is picky about the parking areas for businesses, but do they also specify bike parking? Covered non-smoking bike parking?
I'm not sure why bike paths weren't put in a century ago, but I assume that the streets evolved, perhaps with sidewalks separating people from horses. Then cars were added at about the same time bikes started evolving at the beginning of the 1900's, with cars, bikes, and horses sharing the roads. As cars became dominant cars and bikes shared the roads.
In many places, I don't think there was a push for bike paths until the 1970's, when streets needed to be retrofitted for bike lanes, often with limited real-estate for cars and bikes to travel, along with car parking, and pedestrians, and preserving some greenery, all with impinging as little as possible on existing buildings.
I'm not sure how often roads are resurfaced vs being rebuilt. On one of my rides, there seem to be the exact same potholes in the road shoulders that I passed in the early 80's, so things don't seem to be changing very quickly.
The ride from Springfield to the base of the McKenzie Highway is about 55 miles, or maybe 65 to Eugene. Add 20 miles of uphill to get to the pass, and a few more to get to Sisters. If my proposed route adds 5 more miles and a few hills, then it becomes a very long ride to do it as a daytrip. That certainly limits the number of people doing it as a round-trip day trip. Of course, there might be more local riders, but get 20 or 30 miles down the road and one knocks out most of the daily commuters.
Now, creating a trip that takes two days to do from Eugene wouldn't be bad as it might benefit communities such as McKenzie Bridge, Sisters, and resorts such as Belnap that one might otherwise just pass by, but it still limits the riders.
Thinking of longer "trails". The Katy Trail in Missouri comes to mind. Starting in St. Charles, it gets hammered with use in the first few miles from St. Charles. 20 miles out to Defiance, and the traffic starts dropping dramatically. A few more miles out to Marthasville, and there is just nobody doing the ride. I never made it much beyond that. The trail did pass other larger metro areas, so there would be a spike in usage near each metro area, with long sections with low usage between them.
The on-road bike route from Eugene to Portland is mostly on rural roads, and passes several cities, so I have no doubt sections get heavy use. Going from Eugene to Sisters/Bend, there are far fewer big communities to pass.
#105
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Perhaps, but different.
The roads are public.
While some sidewalks with bike parking are public (downtown Portland), I was thinking of private stores that just forget to put in bike parking, or not enough of it. Perhaps there need to be code changes (if they don't already exist). The government is picky about the parking areas for businesses, but do they also specify bike parking? Covered non-smoking bike parking?
The roads are public.
While some sidewalks with bike parking are public (downtown Portland), I was thinking of private stores that just forget to put in bike parking, or not enough of it. Perhaps there need to be code changes (if they don't already exist). The government is picky about the parking areas for businesses, but do they also specify bike parking? Covered non-smoking bike parking?
Where it comes to larger strip malls and shopping centers, typically there is building code that dictates the number of automobile parking spots in a private parking lot for the volume of the shops... but again, no building code for the cyclist parking... or woefully inadequate bicycle parking... and poorly located or identified. For example... my local grocery store has a bike rack out front... a 4 slot bike rack, which is placed right next to a column at the front of the store, effectively blocking 2 of the bike parking spots. The result is that bicycle riding shoppers end up chaining bikes to poles in the area. My local "health food" grocery has no bicycle parking spots in their lot... which means the health conscious bike riding shoppers end up chaining bikes to light poles in the parking lot.
So yes, the code must be refined and be grandfathered in... it cannot be set such that only new shopping centers have to accommodate cyclists... such parking must be retrofitted just as changes for handicapped persons were retrofitted (once the ADA laws were in place).
BTW regarding your 55 mile and 65 mile trips... hardly reasonable for the average commuting cyclist... but such routes should be built none the less as even the longest stretch of interstate freeway is used by locals for short trips. No, it isn't practical to expect commuting cyclists to go 55 miles or even 20 miles... but 29% of the work force is within 5 miles of their place of work, and those people should be well accommodated. Just removing 10% of local MV traffic from the roads will make a dramatic impact for those who do have to commute longer distances by motor vehicle.
Remember the maps we were looking at early in this thread were local maps... not maps from city to city... if it is difficult to go about locally, people will not bike.
#106
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Locally, most privates store just do not want to be bothered with installing bike parking, and most that do have bike parking, put the bike parking facility as far from the front entrance as possible, off on the BFE portion of their property.
#107
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Portland and Austin manage to provide bike parking in their downtown areas on nearly every block... it doesn't take much, and both cities use it as a form of public art. (they do not use "wheel bender" racks)
Here is an interesting web page from Baltimore discussing the bike parking issue.
https://www.bmorebikes.com/category/parking/page/3/
Last edited by genec; 04-06-15 at 07:57 AM.
#108
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Here's a dumb question. More bikes equals less fuel. Fuel that is taxed and some of that goes into infrastructure.
We may be along way from the tipping point of not enough revenue but then there are already revenue problems in most cities I would bet.
Add a difficult Governor *coughwalkercough* and uh oh.
We may be along way from the tipping point of not enough revenue but then there are already revenue problems in most cities I would bet.
Add a difficult Governor *coughwalkercough* and uh oh.
#109
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Here's a dumb question. More bikes equals less fuel. Fuel that is taxed and some of that goes into infrastructure.
We may be along way from the tipping point of not enough revenue but then there are already revenue problems in most cities I would bet.
Add a difficult Governor *coughwalkercough* and uh oh.
We may be along way from the tipping point of not enough revenue but then there are already revenue problems in most cities I would bet.
Add a difficult Governor *coughwalkercough* and uh oh.
Income taxes go to federal funds that provide grants for things like bike paths and HOV lanes.
#110
Part-time epistemologist
FWIW, what makes DC tricky are the limited crossings over the rivers and to a lesser extent Rock Creek Park. Not particularly efficient by car and less efficient, IMO, by bike. In the end though, the hills make travel harder than a limited supply of acceptable routes.
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A narrative on bicycle driving.
A narrative on bicycle driving.
#111
Part-time epistemologist
Uh sure, and you drive across country to get to work, eh?
All trips are local. Consider that the average American (yes, there are always outliers) travels less that 15 miles to work... 68% of the population goes less than 15 miles. 51 percent go less than 10 miles to work... and 29% of the workforce lives within a mere 5 miles of the office. Can you bike 5 miles?
All trips are local. Consider that the average American (yes, there are always outliers) travels less that 15 miles to work... 68% of the population goes less than 15 miles. 51 percent go less than 10 miles to work... and 29% of the workforce lives within a mere 5 miles of the office. Can you bike 5 miles?
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A narrative on bicycle driving.
A narrative on bicycle driving.
#112
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Meh. We have enormous incentives to drive in north america -- including direct subsidy. Take those away and cycling, walking, and transit use will skyrocket.
#113
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Take those away? Any plan on how those incentives should be taken away, or by whom? Any estimates on the prospects for your "take those away" proposal in the foreseeable future?
#114
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Overcrowded roadways are being used as a disincentive to drive in places like San Francisco, New York and Portland... and of course London, where they charge a fee to enter the core city with a car. Congestion Charge (Official) - Transport for London
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Southeast Portland's Foster Road will lose auto lanes for bike, turn lanes as part of safety plan | OregonLive.com
#116
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Thinking of the freeways, very few private individuals drive the longer freeways (I-5, I-70, I-40/44) from end to end, although they do pick up commercial traffic. The previous "gaps" in the freeway systems were huge hassles.
With the cycle tourists as I was mentioning, one of the benefits of designing longer routes is that they may use local resources more heavily, and thus benefit the economy. Tourists may be self-supporting for day trips, but start using hotels, motels, restaurants, and etc for multi-day trips.
Perhaps one should start considering making high quality coast to coast cycle routes (although nobody wants to do the same route by bike over and over again).
Fuel taxes feed interstate highways. Homeowner property taxes, sales taxes, and developer fees feed surface streets that cyclists use. This is true for most states... I think Wyoming may be different due to their population density.
Income taxes go to federal funds that provide grants for things like bike paths and HOV lanes.
Income taxes go to federal funds that provide grants for things like bike paths and HOV lanes.
Oregon has been grappling with high efficiency vehicles for quite some time. A decade ago they came up with the Prius Tax. It quickly went away as people pointed out the need to support high efficiency vehicles, but the state has been considering special electric vehicle taxes too.
Thinking of cars, they are very expensive. There is a huge segment of the population that depends on building and servicing cars, distributing fuel, and etc. However, I wonder how much of that is completely lost. Insurance is expensive, and when a $20,000 car is destroyed, that money is lost. Fuel bought from overseas has minimal direct benefit for the US economy.
On the other hand, put an extra $200 to $500 a month into a cycle commuter's pocket, and more of that money may go back into the local economy.
#117
genec
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It's happening here. Another major arterial is losing two big lanes and gaining two bike lanes...
Southeast Portland's Foster Road will lose auto lanes for bike, turn lanes as part of safety plan | OregonLive.com
Southeast Portland's Foster Road will lose auto lanes for bike, turn lanes as part of safety plan | OregonLive.com
They did something similar here... took a 2 lane either way 35MPH road with stop signs and turned it into a 25MPH road single lane road with traffic circles that actually handles traffic flow better due to the removal of the stop signs. The lower speeds make it easier for cyclists and pedestrians to negotiate the road too. Local businesses were skeptical at first, but have since noticed more foot traffic, thus a slight uptick in business.
#118
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I was thinking of routes for tourist cyclists... Yes, commuters max out at about 20 to 30 mile each way. Most tourists also max out at about 100 miles a day. Planning 150 mile plus day trips become long.
Thinking of the freeways, very few private individuals drive the longer freeways (I-5, I-70, I-40/44) from end to end, although they do pick up commercial traffic. The previous "gaps" in the freeway systems were huge hassles.
With the cycle tourists as I was mentioning, one of the benefits of designing longer routes is that they may use local resources more heavily, and thus benefit the economy. Tourists may be self-supporting for day trips, but start using hotels, motels, restaurants, and etc for multi-day trips.
Perhaps one should start considering making high quality coast to coast cycle routes (although nobody wants to do the same route by bike over and over again).
One of the things that I will point out is that building shoulders on the busy roads benefit cars, and separating bikes from traffic benefits cars. So, there would be reasons that a car driver should be interested in improving bike infrastructure.
Oregon has been grappling with high efficiency vehicles for quite some time. A decade ago they came up with the Prius Tax. It quickly went away as people pointed out the need to support high efficiency vehicles, but the state has been considering special electric vehicle taxes too.
Thinking of cars, they are very expensive. There is a huge segment of the population that depends on building and servicing cars, distributing fuel, and etc. However, I wonder how much of that is completely lost. Insurance is expensive, and when a $20,000 car is destroyed, that money is lost. Fuel bought from overseas has minimal direct benefit for the US economy.
On the other hand, put an extra $200 to $500 a month into a cycle commuter's pocket, and more of that money may go back into the local economy.
Thinking of the freeways, very few private individuals drive the longer freeways (I-5, I-70, I-40/44) from end to end, although they do pick up commercial traffic. The previous "gaps" in the freeway systems were huge hassles.
With the cycle tourists as I was mentioning, one of the benefits of designing longer routes is that they may use local resources more heavily, and thus benefit the economy. Tourists may be self-supporting for day trips, but start using hotels, motels, restaurants, and etc for multi-day trips.
Perhaps one should start considering making high quality coast to coast cycle routes (although nobody wants to do the same route by bike over and over again).
One of the things that I will point out is that building shoulders on the busy roads benefit cars, and separating bikes from traffic benefits cars. So, there would be reasons that a car driver should be interested in improving bike infrastructure.
Oregon has been grappling with high efficiency vehicles for quite some time. A decade ago they came up with the Prius Tax. It quickly went away as people pointed out the need to support high efficiency vehicles, but the state has been considering special electric vehicle taxes too.
Thinking of cars, they are very expensive. There is a huge segment of the population that depends on building and servicing cars, distributing fuel, and etc. However, I wonder how much of that is completely lost. Insurance is expensive, and when a $20,000 car is destroyed, that money is lost. Fuel bought from overseas has minimal direct benefit for the US economy.
On the other hand, put an extra $200 to $500 a month into a cycle commuter's pocket, and more of that money may go back into the local economy.
The real problems with our visions is that far too many decision makers tend to think of bikes as toys, and not as a means for transportation or even revenue.
#119
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I could see something like cyclotourism working in the right areas... in fact, I was very disappointed in what San Diego did several years back with an extension to the OB bike path. They did add more bike path, (although the surface is the poorest sort of concrete pour I have ever seen) and extended the bike path into an area known as Mission Valley. However, where they failed is in not extending the path all the way to local hotels... If they had done so, they would have opened up a bikeway for visiting tourists all the way to the beach areas... and perhaps opened up the opportunities for bike rental businesses, bike path food stands and even guided tours. But no, they maintained the same car-centric mentality that often prevails... with the result that tourists will likely have to drive to the beach.
The real problems with our visions is that far too many decision makers tend to think of bikes as toys, and not as a means for transportation or even revenue.
The real problems with our visions is that far too many decision makers tend to think of bikes as toys, and not as a means for transportation or even revenue.
I heard that the trail had a lot of local opposition, but there are several restaurants, bike shops, and bed and breakfasts that benefit from it. It only takes a couple of cyclists a day to give a serious boost to a bed and breakfast.
And, if a bike trail makes the difference between a restaurant or no restaurant, the locals might even benefit.
#120
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It's happening here. Another major arterial is losing two big lanes and gaining two bike lanes...
Southeast Portland's Foster Road will lose auto lanes for bike, turn lanes as part of safety plan | OregonLive.com
Southeast Portland's Foster Road will lose auto lanes for bike, turn lanes as part of safety plan | OregonLive.com
#122
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#123
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As you probably know, Seattle uses the daily traffic volume as the main criterion to determine whether or not "road dieting" is feasible for a particular roadway. Simply put, 25,000 cars per day is the threshold. Arterial streets like Lake City Way and 15th Ave NW won't have their current lanes taken away as they both carry more than 35,000 cars daily, but most other roadways have less than 25,000 cars per day, thereby being potential candidates for lane reduction.
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The value of your life doesn't change based on the way you travel. - Dawn Schellenberg (SDOT)
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#124
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Our local cycling advocacy group installed several bike parking stands around our city, but the cost and permitting process was extensive, limiting the number of bike parking stands being installed, and most of those bike parking stands could effectively accommodate only one bike at a time.
#125
genec
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The only local businesses that have modern and well thought out bike parking, only did so after years of dealing with large numbers of bicycles parked in ramshackle fashion in various locations on their property. Basically, demand has to come first with small local businesses in the area, then they will build it, since there is no real incentive from the municipality to do it beforehand.
Our local cycling advocacy group installed several bike parking stands around our city, but the cost and permitting process was extensive, limiting the number of bike parking stands being installed, and most of those bike parking stands could effectively accommodate only one bike at a time.
Our local cycling advocacy group installed several bike parking stands around our city, but the cost and permitting process was extensive, limiting the number of bike parking stands being installed, and most of those bike parking stands could effectively accommodate only one bike at a time.
Streets were not paved by local businesses, nor were parking meters installed by local businesses; this sort of thing is done at the municipal level, and paid for by city monies. To get the same done for cyclists means that cycling must be recognized by city leaders as a viable means of transportation.