Dave Cutter

+1 I remember when FM radio became practical for use in cars. There was a brief period when the fearful wanted to ban FM from cars in some states. Fortunately such foolish concerns didn't catch on. These off-the-wall ideas about restricting anything new will always be with us.... as people never change. Progress is always two steps forward... then one step back.

genec

I tend to agree... I am a regular user of a smart phone while riding in my wife's car... it makes no sense to me to restrict the use of cell phones to the majority of folks that are responsible users.

howardv

I appreciate everyone's response. I think the main topic was a bit side tracked by the discussion of "fear". The main purpose of my thread was to see if we could realistically reduce the risk of cell phones. I don't think the idea of having all data/voice stop once a mobile device is moving faster than a certain speed will ever get passed. This is like banning the sale of liquor because some people may drink and drive. You can't just punish everyone.

Realistically, I just can't see how it's possible to stop drivers from using their mobile devices. With that in mind, I just thought it would be a bit *safer* if the user looked ahead instead of down when they text or dial a number (or even mess with GPS on their phone). Sometimes we just have to compromise. I'm glad to see I wasn't alone in this though!

genec

I really don't think folks fear cycling... I think they may exercise extreme caution about some motorists and their displays of poor driving behavior.

If you really want to go after "fear" at it's roots, go after all the parents that insist on driving their young kids to school "because it is dangerous out there." That poorly held belief exacerbates reasonable caution in children to abnormal fear.

BTW I have no fear of cycling... I have and do ride a bike all over the place, and have bike commuted for decades (not at the moment as I am not working)... I do however tire from time to time with the frustration of having to "teach" motorists that I have a right to be on the road... and that they have very clearly spelled out responsibilities while driving a motor vehicle.

I think trying to tell potential cyclists to HTFU and become the "alpha dog" while in the face of cell phone using distracted speeding motorists though is a somewhat fools' errand. Cyclists rarely ever harm motorists... the problem is really on the other foot.

Dave Cutter

Then why have a forum dedicated to "advocacy and safety" if the two aren't believed to be linked? If you don't see the connection.... why do you post here?

I am no expert but I've never seen that to be true.

If you have no fear.... why on Earth would you care if the motorist are paying attention or not? That makes no sense. Why do you post in safety at all?

Keith99

3 years or so ago I'd see people turning out of the shopping center near work on their cells all the time.

I remember because it was so striking. It is a very nasty left turn to make because the intersection is close and the traffic fast. Add in they were just parked. It would have been so easy to finish before starting to drive.

Over the past year I have not seen it at all. Either they figured out that at least for that spot it is dumber than dumb or increased enforcement has made a difference.

Oh and the triple stupid is the Sheriffs station is only a half mile away and they often stop at that shopping center. If yuo are going to break the law at least don't do it in a high police presence area.

JoeyBike

Man, if my father was still living he would have made that nasty left turn with a phone in one hand while lighting a cigarette and opening a breakfast burrito. He would routinely wait until he was merging onto a busy freeway to start digging for his smokes. But driving never killed him...the cigarettes did that for him at age 48. Had he lived longer I have little doubt that he would have died in an automobile crash. But that was long before cell phones. CB radios had just come into vogue in passenger cars at that time.

snow_echo_NY

no no no...

it's not safer if cell phone use was allowed while driving. like others said, it's distracting and people should just follow the law and use their head for once.

mostly drivers of all ages, young teens, adults, and the older generation are all a hazard to each other on the roads as motorists. they would do better with city infrastructure that offers good transportation options, and self-driving cars. when is that coming by the way?

cellery

Do you guys think we have enough of a sample size of people who used a sample of one to determine what percentage of BF feel a correlation can be made based on a sample size of one?

genec

I post here to advocate for cycling... to make suggestions to increase ridership... take a look at the links in my sig at the end my posts.

As far as the "advocacy and safety" connection... well Dave, think about it... think long and hard... are you just gonna plop people on bikes and tell 'em "have a nice day..." Just go out there and ride the streets with the cars, don't worry about a thing and you'll be just fine? (well, YOU might) The reality is the environment for cyclists is full of little "gotchas..." from right hook driving motorists to door zones to poor bike lanes to narrow traveled lanes.... just to name a few. You don't just throw someone in the pool and expect that they are ready for a long swim in the ocean. (I suppose you don't believe in the buddy system when swimming either... )

If you are going to encourage new ridership, ya gotta give 'em some hints about some of the possible pitfalls.

But if that doesn't work for you... consider this... I didn't name this sub forum... I just come here to post. YOU don't like A&S, why are YOU here? OOPs, kinda blows right up in your face there doesn't it.

Frankly, I post in several sub forums... I post a lot in A&S due to the advocacy aspect. I wanna see more folks out there riding... it's a healthy activity, it reduces pollution (oops, my selfish reason) and it reduces our dependence on foreign oil and it reduces noise. And frankly it's fun... but people seem to forget that "fun part" as soon as they become "adults."

Again... what's your reason for being here?

You're no expert... leave it at that. Meanwhile, mom and dad are constantly yelling at their kids (you got kids Dave?) "watch out for the cars..." What do you think is gonna be retained in their young minds.

Heck, right now there is a parallel thread about parents condemning cycling... as "far far too dangerous," go take a look: https://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-s...parenting.html

Dave, Dave, Dave... I'm sharing the road with couple of tons of moving metal... I'm doing my part to adhere to the laws and be as safe as I can... I don't want some clueless moron plowing into me because they aren't paying attention as they run right up my behind, or cruise right through some red light and plow into me broadside. I care about what other road users are doing whether I am walking, biking or driving... it's called being aware... and driving (or cycling) defensively.

I care about what other dog owners are doing when I walk my dog... does that make me "fearful" or just aware? I say "aware." Apparently you can't tell the difference.

But hey, if you don't care... why are YOU here... just go stick your head in the sand and ignore BF altogether.

Have a nice day.

JoeyBike

I think everyone here would agree with your statement. Problem is...people do what they want. All the OP was trying to sort out in his own head is the fact that if people are going to do whatever they want to i.e., use handheld devices while operating motor vehicles - then PERHAPS we should not make that act ten times more dangerous than it needs to be by forcing phone use to drop below the dashboard.

I am not even sure I would agree with the statement that "People should just follow the law" as it has been my experience that many laws are impossible or expensive to enforce and do very little in terms of actually adding safety to our lives.

Ever heard of alcohol prohibition in the USA? Fat lot of good that did. It has been far better to decriminalize alcohol and tax it. Sure some blood hits the wall with the drunk driving thing but the Capones of our era have to make a living doing something other than bootlegging liquor and all of the atrocities that went along with it. People were still drinking when it was against the law, now at least the tax pays some bills.

unterhausen

I think that's just the way people text, if they were required to put it at windshield height, I don't think they would do it

I would love for a passenger in a semi to do a survey of how many drivers are texting. When we went on a road trip recently, the percentage was disturbingly large. My theory is that most texting drivers only text when they think it's safe. They aren't going to initiate texting when the road is curving or there is a lot of traffic around unless they are pathologically addicted.

Chris516

+10000

katsrevenge

Agree 100%. The tech exists, we need to use it!

I saw a graph from I think Califorinia that had a dip when the laws passed..and then a slow rise up as people went back to texting. I bet that the laws were simply not being enforced well.

But I'm not a solder. I just want to go to the store. Or work. I don't mind some risk, that's life.. but I do mind carelessness!

Dave Cutter

Maybe your right. Maybe you know way too much about how kids minds can be "altered" by yelling parents. I never felt it to be necessary to yell at a child.

CrankyOne

The visual element is half or less of the danger of cell phones. The mindshare element is critical. Even hands-free cell phones and voice to text systems have proven to significantly impair drivers ability to react to dangers and obstacles.

The cell phone distraction problem is not unlike drinking and driving. It will take time for the message to get out and for social stigma to work. In Europe it is quite socially unacceptable to drink and drive and this is credited with much lower drunk driving, it is slowly becoming that way here. The same is happening with cell phones. (note: many Europeans have not learned that drinking themselves to death is a bad idea though)

genec

Good for you... too bad it doesn't work that way for everyone.... I provided you a perfect example.

snow_echo_NY

Raising the phone and putting at dashboard height is not going to help. you are distracted and you are focusing on something else. peripheral vision is NOTHING:

i.e. read this on vision What an RAF pilot can teach us about being safe on the road

drinking alcohol and looking at your damn phone while driving are two different things. driving while intoxicated and looking at your damn phone while driving - these are a bit more similar. cell phones are relatively new, but both lead to incapacitating your ability to drive responsibly and are serious offenses.

i am totally for cell phones auto-locking themselves when a car is in motion. too bad for other people in the car. guess making conversation is just too hard.

with growing technology, there are ways to enforce laws and it should be utilized to protect the general public. i'm not saying it will happen nor even likely to happen anytime soon.

people still drink and drive and kill themselves and others on an everyday basis. until rights and privileges of driving are taken away, people will continue to do it. and so people will continue to lose loved ones.

dynodonn 

What I see is an opportunity for some young entrepreneur to make millions of dollars developing a device to circumvent this cell phone locking feature.

JoeyBike

Realize that with a working cell phone in your car you can call the cops to report drunk drivers and actually give the police a minute by minute update on the drunks position. Other crimes too. Happens every day.

snow_echo_NY

no, you're allowing for a loophole - cell phone providers make money when you use your phone. they do not make money if you are forced not to use your phone.

if gov't prohibits it and fines cell phone companies for not complying and fines anyone who circumvents it, this alone could probably pay for roads that need upkeep. the road and bridge infrastructure is underfunded and so much infrastructure is exceeding 50 years of age with no plans or budget to maintain it and keep it safe.

they already make GPS systems in the car not accept you touching the screen while the car is moving b/c of liability. the same should be applied to cell phone usage while the car is in motion.

snow_echo_NY

obviously calling 911 would be the exception. again, i'm all for tech to improve the situation.

and hopefully from a passenger, and hopefully after the car is pulled over to a stop.

I-Like-To-Bike

Hyperbole and hysteria about cell phones with little or no relationship to bicycling safety except for over (and over) heated conjuring about an alleged horrific effect of increased risk to bicyclists; what else is new on A&S?

genec

Still looking for the statistical data that will never be collected eh?

Never mind the obvious that if a driver is NOT looking at the road, anyone else in front of that moving car is at risk.

JoeyBike

I believe that auto insurance companies will top the list of folks wanting to and assembling lists regarding cell phone use and driving hazards. Most likely the insurance industry will address the issue with increased rates for crashing a car while using a phone. Maybe.