howardv

I was standing on my 2nd floor balcony and watching the cars below (there is a stop sign nearby). I have a clear view of the inside of the cars. The drivers of about 1 out of 4 cars had a cell phone and was busy doing something with it. They all hold the cell phone on their lap or very low, so it's not visible to other drivers. This naturally causes them to look down while they text/email/dial a call. Obviously, this is extremely dangerous and a major concern to cyclists. I love cycling, but I'm really worried about these distracted drivers.

Cell phone use is already illegal, but it doesn't seem to phase most people as they continue to use them. Their chance of getting caught is very slim, specially when they hold the phone low. This just seems like a losing battle.

I was just thinking....wouldn't it be safer if cell phones and texting was made legal so the drivers can at least hold the phone up high or mount to their dash/windshield. This way, they would be looking straight rather than down. Some peripheral vision is better than no vision. Still damn dangerous as they are distracted, but wouldn't it be an improvement over holding the phone on your lap and looking down?

What are your thoughts?

B. Carfree

You're basically saying, "Many motorists won't follow the law, and their attempts to avoid being caught increase the hazard they present even more, therefore we should change the law." This is the same approach that is used in setting speed limits. If most of the motorists are exceeding the speed limit, the limit is raised. It is my belief that this doesn't work out so well; yes the number of deaths for motorists is declining, but that doesn't mean the increased speeds are not killing nonmotorists or having a negative impact on people's choices of how to get around.

While we're at it shall we scrap what's left of speed limits, stop signs, right of way, traffic signals and the rest of the road safety infrastructure? After all, most motorists routinely violate those things as well and their adaptive behaviors to avoid being caught to (marginally) increase the hazard.

Chris516

(facepalm and shaking head)

howardv

Not sure how people would drive better without stop signs, speed limits, right of way, and traffic signals. But having people look up instead of down would make it a bit better. I am just amazed when I see people looking down at their lap and driving! Might as well put blind folds on. But if they don't have to fear getting caught, maybe they'll install window/dash mounts for their phone so at least they'll have some peripheral vision of the road! Hey, it's FAR from ideal. But with my life on the line on a bike, I'd like to increase my chances as much as possible.

I know this is NOT an ideal solution by far. But consider the alternatives....which are not working so far.

Dave Cutter

Worry and fear are self-generated emotions. Since you are already experiencing these emotions that is where you might want to turn your attention.

Laws only marginally effect peoples behavior. If making up safe sounding laws worked.... you wouldn't have seen anyone playing with their phone. On one even knows what all the laws are. More laws... mean nothing.

Some cyclists... for whatever reason... become safety concerned (AKA: fearful) at some point in their cycling career. There seems to be a limitless number of superstitions, and rituals that people try in an effort to regain their self-confidence.... or whatever. The blinking rear red light... seems to be the most popular.

I wish you all the best of luck.

genec

The reason some cyclists become fearful "for whatever reason" is likely either having close calls with motorists or actually being struck by a motor vehicle... such real situations tend to enlighten one rather quickly on the potential for grave harm.

JoeyBike

YES!!! I have been saying this (right here on A&S too) for years. I am totally against cell phone laws for this^^ very reason. Hiding the phone below the dash causes a much more dangerous situation than using it atop the steering wheel. Cell phone users are ADDICTS. Addicts need their fix and do not obey laws. RE: The almost total failure of the Nancy Reagan "Just Say No" campaign. What a friggin' JOKE. "Just Say No" to cell phones behind the wheel is an even bigger joke. At least in the USofA.

Yep. Just say NO baby. Worthless nonsense trying to legislate for addicts. A much better solution is to enforce the law on the back end. If a motorist is involved in an accident WHILE they are on the phone - they get a year in the slammer. Some people are perfectly capable of using a phone in a car under certain conditions. Why go after them?....wait....NOBODY is GOING AFTER THEM ANYWAY.

Get in a wreck, no matter who is "at fault", have the cops check your cell carrier to see if you were using the phone, go to jail for a year. It will never happen because all of the lawmakers want to yack on the phone in their cars too. The LEAST they could do is make it less dangerous by allowing motorists to use the phone atop the steering wheel where they MIGHT see my 300 lumen Dinotte retina-seering tail light.

This whole cell phone phenomenon has led me to give up recreational cycling completely. I don't own a car, but now I limit my cycling to just the bare necessities - work, grocery, doctor, dentist. That's it. I won't cycle one extra mile that I don't have too except on car free trails. People drove stoopid enough before cell phones. Now it is just outrageous.

Chris516

Ads like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tlxjng8h3Tc

done by Volkswagen must be fake. People never die or kill anyone, when they are talking/texting on their cell phone.

Now, Some videos where people died as a result of talking/texting on their cell phone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY_sdJKbIbo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvDMzbgBqB0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMNx0Q8t9so
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRPK5dN7fv8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMkeDJIgP6E

Lets' not forget about Kimberley Davis:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUIWW370I1I

I would rather have a big rig behind me, instead of a talking/texting driver.

Looigi

Dials, gauges and displays are generally mounted high on the dash so that you don't have to take your eyes far off the road in order to view them. And now, head-up displays are becoming more common, where info is essence projected over the outside view. This would seem to argue that operating a smart phone high up in line with visual sight lines to the road ahead would be better than working it while hiding it down on your lap. I know it's better when I do it that way...not texting or calling but viewing the GPS map.

rydabent

I am still for cell phones being rendered inactive if they are moving faster than 10mph. The world actually turned before cell phones. Is screwing with a cell phone worth all the lives that have been snuffed out because some fool was using his or her cell phone while driving?

mobilemail

The unfortunate truth of law in general is that it is reactive, not proactive; penalty comes after failure. This does not mean that we should discard the law to encourage stupid behavior! I do think the phone's screen and keyboard should become frozen when the phone is in any motion at all. Seem extreme? Consider the following:
1. An auto rolling at 3mph will still impact whatever is in front of it, including the possibility of a pedestrian in a crosswalk
2. How many times have you had to make noise so some idiot staring at a phone didn't walk straight into you?

Common sense says you should be looking when moving, or stop moving. But sometimes common sense needs a little reinforcement to produce consistently good behavior.

Dave Cutter

Very interesting! I never in my long life ever heard "fear" referred to as "enlightened". Actually.... I believe all of human history recognizes just the opposite. That through enlightenment... fear is discarded.

I put in a couple thousand miles of largely urban miles a year. And you can blame skill levels, traffic, luck or whatever.... but close calls and even real crashes do happen. I've found them very life affirming as does other cyclists I've talked with.

I have seen no connection to normal outside forces (traffic/accidents) and internal emotions. By your explanation of events.... people afraid of flying would be limited to those people who have been in airplane crashes. I am sure... that isn't the case.

So..... why not just past some giant, federal "common sense behavior Law". Cut to the quick and force all people (by threat of law) to exhibit "proper common sense" in all manner of behavior both public and private. There we go! No more accidents or mistakes again... ever.

unterhausen

texting is far too dangerous to be made legal. I wish there was better enforcement. I've seen a crash that was almost surely caused by texting, since the driver passed us a number of times while obviously texting before we saw her crashed by the side of the road -- talking on her cellphone.

mr_bill

Teens seem perfectly capable of crashing no matter if they hold the cell phone high or low.


-mr. bill

genec

Your words: "life affirming;" not far from "enlightened."

And equating fear of flying with cycling... quite a bit over the top.

So key question... ever been hit by a car and injured? On a bike, or in a car?
Another question... do you understand the laws of physics as related to mass and speed?

dynodonn 

It seems that California's cell phone law, and subsequent heftier fines and enforcement, are having an effect on motorists wanting to drive and use their cellphones at the same time, since the numbers, of motorists doing so, are declining.

"The office of Traffic Safety said the percentage of drivers actively using cellphones -- handheld or hands-free -- at any one time across the state dropped to its lowest point since counting began in 2011. It dropped from 7.4 percent in 2013 to 6.6 percent in 2014."


CHP: 55,000 distracted driving tickets issued in April | Local News - Central Coast News KION

Dave Cutter

But... I didn't! I compared fear of [flying] to fear of [cycling].... fear to fear. Fear is ALWAYS... an internal safety mechanism and nothing more (or less). This is a fact... not a discussable idea.

Yes
Yes
Yes (both)
Yes

And there is your problem! Math has nothing to do with fear. Internal feelings can not be resolved or controlled by outside influences. You can try forever... but it just doesn't work that way.

ItsJustMe

What would be great is enforcement.

Everyone gripes about speed traps being revenue generators. Why not switch to issuing cell phone tickets as revenue generators? It doesn't seem hard, there is a video floating around here where an undercover motorcycle cop is pulling people over and issuing tickets. I think a lot more people would be supportive of ticketing for cell phone use than for issuing tickets for doing 55 in a 45.

Absolutely anyone can (and has) casually looked around and seen very many people breaking the cell phone usage laws at any minute of any day on any street. Why isn't there more enforcement? Seems like easy money.

genec

Fear is often nature's way of saying... hey... be careful! Or do you simply run into burning buildings without a care in the world?

BTW... "The blinking rear red light..." As a sign of fear? Or merely an effort to ensure you are being seen? You no doubt have no lighting on your bike and ride around in dark clothing at night, eh?

You seem to have this rather interesting obsession with "fear."

Number400

Every vehicle with a motor should have an 8" spike sticking out of the steering wheel and no seat belts or air bags. This would encourage everyone to drive with care and attention.

People should drive with 100% focus on their surroundings, period. Put the phone, newspaper, mother-in-law, etc...in the trunk before you drive!

JoeyBike

Most of those folks were looking down at the seat or their lap.

2manybikes

Seeing that about 1 out of 4 drivers are on a cell phone may mean that the "no cell phone" laws changed it from 3 out of 4 drivers on the phone while driving.
You can interpret your observation in many ways. It's too small of a sample in any case, to prove anything.
My thinking is that the gps in all phones now, should shut the phone off when going over, let's say 15 mph.

genec

Nope, that doesn't make sense either... you just cut off cell phone use for passengers, bus riders and train riders... just because some motorists are too stupid to drive.

The fact is that 1 in 4 observation by the OP means that MOST drivers are doing the right thing... why should they be penalized for the actions of a smaller group that is just acting irresponsibly. 25% wrong is not a reason to punish 75% OK.

JoeyBike

My wife checks a map app on her phone every half an hour or so when I am driving with her on long road trips - to check for delays, accidents, road construction backups etc. I can't tell you how many hours of sitting in stopped traffic I have saved over the years with the capability to know what is happening up the highway and taken an alternate route.

So I vote HELL NO to shutting off my wife's phone while the car is in motion. We use our technology responsibly. Why do i have to pay for all of the ignoramuses out there? Let's take care of the drunks first. If that ever gets accomplished I might entertain the idea of killing cell phone us in cars.

Dave Cutter

Hardly. I first faced my demons decades ago. Trust me solders will face real dangers all over the world... today... and everyday. Traffic on a bicycle... is nothing!

I am just trying to be helpful. Fear is merely a part of the fight or flight reflex... nothing more. If you can't set aside your fears of cycling... you may want to find someone who specializes in phobias. But you won't find solutions to the problem of cycling fears.... with external efforts. Otherwise... you seem to just be all over the place grasping for solutions without ever defining the problem.