Another cyclist killed with impunity
#76
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IMO in cases like this, any driver that hits a cyclist, car, or anything else that says (I didnt see him or it) should automatically be charged with negligent driving. It is a drivers DUTY to be in control and see everything.
#77
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#78
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#79
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Oh people have noticed... but is it just another "conspiracy" or what... and bear in mind that regular cyclists represent less than 2% of the population... so do they even matter?
Bob Mionske's BicycleLaw.com Blog on Bicycle Law and Advocacy: An Exercise In Absurdity
"It must have been your fault. C'mon. You are a biker." - Greater Greater Washington
Apparently folks in Austin "keep tabs." https://bicycleaustin.info/justice/de...ml#jaywilliams
I am not aware of any official collection of such data...
Bob Mionske's BicycleLaw.com Blog on Bicycle Law and Advocacy: An Exercise In Absurdity
"It must have been your fault. C'mon. You are a biker." - Greater Greater Washington
Apparently folks in Austin "keep tabs." https://bicycleaustin.info/justice/de...ml#jaywilliams
I am not aware of any official collection of such data...
#80
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There are roads like that here, not far from my house. One road I regularly travel on, is 40mph the edge of the town I live in, to ten miles in one direction. But going from the town on that road in the opposite direction, the road in question goes to 45mph for the several miles to the end of it. But the increase is partially understandable. Since the higher speed limit starts as the road goes further out of the business district of a major city.
#81
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Yeah, well that's not the way the law works and your opinion officially counts for naught.
#82
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You won't see it unless you comb court records and police reports. Otherwise, the lack of indictments and convictions regarding motorists who kill cyclists is evidence enough. It's not that "I didn't see them" is either an excuse or admission, it's that laws on the books are not clear or punitive enough to matter. Motorist is drunk, runs down a cyclist, claims "I didn't see them," and they are still going to face a heapload of trouble; sober motorist left-hooks and kills a cyclist, claims "I didn't see them," and they will be cited for failure to yield and fined a paltry.
#83
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It would be good if there was at least a license suspension. If a drunk driver can loose his license even without hurting anybody, then a person who runs into somebody else should too.
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You won't see it unless you comb court records and police reports. Otherwise, the lack of indictments and convictions regarding motorists who kill cyclists is evidence enough. It's not that "I didn't see them" is either an excuse or admission, it's that laws on the books are not clear or punitive enough to matter. Motorist is drunk, runs down a cyclist, claims "I didn't see them," and they are still going to face a heapload of trouble; sober motorist left-hooks and kills a cyclist, claims "I didn't see them," and they will be cited for failure to yield and fined a paltry.
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My point is that I've never seen any proof that for any type of given incident, a driver will ultimately receive lesser charges or penalties when a cyclist is involved. I suspect one could come to the same conclusion for any user group.....if one focused all their attention on a single group.
The real question is whether letting motorists "off" for "remorse" is really in of itself the correct thing to do... what message does that send?
The other question is "do collisions involving the deaths of cyclists and peds get a fair investigation..." and this is where some bias may occur... in that it has been speculated that if a cyclist is killed, the assumptions are made by LEOs et. al. that "well probably the cyclist was doing something wrong." This latter issue has reared it's ugly head in some cases that were later proven by other interested parties to not be the fault of the cyclist... there was video available in a couple similar cases that the police department refused to release... in spite of the clear evidence in the video that showed the cyclist was NOT in the wrong... in those situations one has to wonder... why the cover up?
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It's been argued here before that motorists tend to not get charged regardless of who gets killed... another motorist, a motorcyclist, or a cyclist or ped... somehow the "charges" tend to be thrown out "due to remorse." There are of course exceptions... and any recognized use of drugs and alcohol always gets further attention.
The real question is whether letting motorists "off" for "remorse" is really in of itself the correct thing to do... what message does that send?
The other question is "do collisions involving the deaths of cyclists and peds get a fair investigation..." and this is where some bias may occur... in that it has been speculated that if a cyclist is killed, the assumptions are made by LEOs et. al. that "well probably the cyclist was doing something wrong." This latter issue has reared it's ugly head in some cases that were later proven by other interested parties to not be the fault of the cyclist... there was video available in a couple similar cases that the police department refused to release... in spite of the clear evidence in the video that showed the cyclist was NOT in the wrong... in those situations one has to wonder... why the cover up?
The real question is whether letting motorists "off" for "remorse" is really in of itself the correct thing to do... what message does that send?
The other question is "do collisions involving the deaths of cyclists and peds get a fair investigation..." and this is where some bias may occur... in that it has been speculated that if a cyclist is killed, the assumptions are made by LEOs et. al. that "well probably the cyclist was doing something wrong." This latter issue has reared it's ugly head in some cases that were later proven by other interested parties to not be the fault of the cyclist... there was video available in a couple similar cases that the police department refused to release... in spite of the clear evidence in the video that showed the cyclist was NOT in the wrong... in those situations one has to wonder... why the cover up?
#87
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https://greatergreaterwashington.org/...u-are-a-biker/
The video was extremely clear: I did everything right, while the driver did something dangerous and in violation of traffic laws. At 9:13:09 am (7 seconds into the video clip above), the light turned green. At 9:13:42 (32 seconds in), I appear on screen, and less than 2 seconds later, I cross the intersection. At 9:13:44.524, the driver made a left turn. 8 more cars pass through the intersection. At 9:14:08, the light turns red.
When I suggested that he review the video, he refused. The supervisor said he'd contact the officer but that I shouldn't expect anything to come of it, as I was a bicyclist.
So I filed an appeal. I scheduled a hearing and brought my evidence, but the officer didn't bother to show up. The ticket was canceled. It took an extra several hours of unnecessary hassle, but it felt great.
However, to get compensation for my permanent injury, my medical bills, lost work, pain and suffering, I had to sue the driver and her insurance company. It's hard to do in DC, which along with Maryland, Virginia and 2 other states, uses the "contributory negligence" standard for liability after crashes. Under that standard, if the victim was doing anything at all wrong, no matter how small, he or she can't collect any damages.
Without the video, it would've been nearly impossible to prove that I did everything right. But thanks to the footage and the work of Patrick Regan and Paul Cornoni of Regan, Zambri, Long, and Betram, I subsequently sued and then settled with the driver and her insurance company, receiving compensation for my permanent partial disability.
When I suggested that he review the video, he refused. The supervisor said he'd contact the officer but that I shouldn't expect anything to come of it, as I was a bicyclist.
So I filed an appeal. I scheduled a hearing and brought my evidence, but the officer didn't bother to show up. The ticket was canceled. It took an extra several hours of unnecessary hassle, but it felt great.
However, to get compensation for my permanent injury, my medical bills, lost work, pain and suffering, I had to sue the driver and her insurance company. It's hard to do in DC, which along with Maryland, Virginia and 2 other states, uses the "contributory negligence" standard for liability after crashes. Under that standard, if the victim was doing anything at all wrong, no matter how small, he or she can't collect any damages.
Without the video, it would've been nearly impossible to prove that I did everything right. But thanks to the footage and the work of Patrick Regan and Paul Cornoni of Regan, Zambri, Long, and Betram, I subsequently sued and then settled with the driver and her insurance company, receiving compensation for my permanent partial disability.
So "claims of accountability when a cyclist is involved... " yeah, there is evidence... But how deep is it... really hard to say.
I know in my own personal life... my dealings with PD while cycling has always been positive... including the time I was taken unconscious to the hospital after a motorist failed to yield to me at a stop sign.
Let's just say that in some places, with some officers... cyclists might not always get the fairest treatment... but this is not a universal thing... as I've said, I have always had good treatment from the LEOs I have dealt with.
#88
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Go back and check the links I provided in post 74... especially this one:
"It must have been your fault. C'mon. You are a biker." - Greater Greater Washington
This isn't the only case that had video that was denied by police... It's just one of them... that shows clearly there was a bias by at least one cop against the cyclist involved. (the guy mentioned above in the quote)
So "claims of accountability when a cyclist is involved... " yeah, there is evidence... But how deep is it... really hard to say.
I know in my own personal life... my dealings with PD while cycling has always been positive... including the time I was taken unconscious to the hospital after a motorist failed to yield to me at a stop sign.
Let's just say that in some places, with some officers... cyclists might not always get the fairest treatment... but this is not a universal thing... as I've said, I have always had good treatment from the LEOs I have dealt with.
"It must have been your fault. C'mon. You are a biker." - Greater Greater Washington
This isn't the only case that had video that was denied by police... It's just one of them... that shows clearly there was a bias by at least one cop against the cyclist involved. (the guy mentioned above in the quote)
So "claims of accountability when a cyclist is involved... " yeah, there is evidence... But how deep is it... really hard to say.
I know in my own personal life... my dealings with PD while cycling has always been positive... including the time I was taken unconscious to the hospital after a motorist failed to yield to me at a stop sign.
Let's just say that in some places, with some officers... cyclists might not always get the fairest treatment... but this is not a universal thing... as I've said, I have always had good treatment from the LEOs I have dealt with.
#89
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Did you go back and to post 74 and take a look at the LINKS I provided... you know, more than one... and bear in mind this is only what has been documented. Bottom line... your mileage may vary.
What bias that may exist is likely an individual thing... IE a personal belief here and there by some LEOs that cyclists just don't belong, no doubt borne out of either their views as a motorist, or after having responded to bad situations involving cyclists.
I rather doubt that there is a general institutional bias against cyclists.
#90
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I don't believe the given examples represent how cyclists are treated any more than the few news worthy incidents of cyclists behaving badly represent cyclists.
#91
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But there have been countless claims to that effect on BF, yet there's never been any proof other than a few news worthy incidents of when the system has failed.
I don't believe the given examples represent how cyclists are treated any more than the few news worthy incidents of cyclists behaving badly represent cyclists.
I don't believe the given examples represent how cyclists are treated any more than the few news worthy incidents of cyclists behaving badly represent cyclists.
#92
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The proof would be charges and convictions of drivers who cause serious injury or death by type of victim. To my knowledge nobody is compiling such data therefore all that's easily available are incidents presented to target audiences highlighting and exaggerating emotional issues that don't represent the norm.
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The proof would be charges and convictions of drivers who cause serious injury or death by type of victim. To my knowledge nobody is compiling such data therefore all that's easily available are incidents presented to target audiences highlighting and exaggerating emotional issues that don't represent the norm.
#94
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My point is that I've never seen any proof that for any type of given incident, a driver will ultimately receive lesser charges or penalties when a cyclist is involved. I suspect one could come to the same conclusion for any user group.....if one focused all their attention on a single group.
...and this is also why I find specific laws like cell phone and DUI/DWI laws problematic -- instead of focusing on the issue, dead and injured road users, we focus on a very narrow set of circumstances regarding criminality of killing or injuring road users.
Another classic example are those who claim that not using a helmet will look bad in court and figure somehow in contributory negligence, when in fact those who make such claims have never been able to show a sustained example.
More like, if it was truly an issue, you can be sure that special interest groups like the LAB or state level cycling advocacy would be all over it. The rebuttal to something like this would be an example like police misconduct, especially killings, which is not required reportage but obviously happens and is an issue.
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#96
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Try to remember that it is YOUR responsibility to be concerned with your safety, not the motorist's. They are concerned about getting to their destination with no delay. They will continue to kill and maim cyclists, maybe even YOU. Before you throw your leg over a top tube and launch into traffic there should be a "Terms of Agreement" button to press on your handlebars stating something like: "Cyclists get killed by motor vehicles every day. If you continue, you are accepting the KNOWN HAZARDS and the possibility that you could be injured or killed while undertaking this activity".
If you press "Agree" and continue, some percent of the onus is on you.
#97
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I think her license should be suspended, and perhaps it is now. But the sad thing is, the DA probably didn't feel he could get a conviction in front of a jury or judge, even for something like involuntary manslaughter.
#98
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Im sure a conviction could have been attained. It is hard to ignore the dead cyclist. IMO the Co ATT is just another damned fool anti cyclist moron.
#99
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To continue this story some, yesterday I was stopped on the bike trail in town by a lady. I was riding my trike, and she stopped me to ask if I knew anywhere she could get an unuseable trike she could make into a ghost trike to place at the scene of the accident. She is a friend of the family and wants to do this.
A little further information on the woman that killed the cyclist. It is pretty well known that she has macular degeneration. So why does she still have a drivers license anyway. Further she was driving a van that has her setting higher with a better view, so she should have a full view ahead and should have seen the trike with its 8 foot high flag.
The family says that the Otoe Co Att has still refused to do ANYTHING. As far as the family knows he hasnt even contacted the drivers license office to have this woman rechecked for her license. Since the Co Att isnt doing his job, the family has started a civil suit against the driver and her insurance company.
A little further information on the woman that killed the cyclist. It is pretty well known that she has macular degeneration. So why does she still have a drivers license anyway. Further she was driving a van that has her setting higher with a better view, so she should have a full view ahead and should have seen the trike with its 8 foot high flag.
The family says that the Otoe Co Att has still refused to do ANYTHING. As far as the family knows he hasnt even contacted the drivers license office to have this woman rechecked for her license. Since the Co Att isnt doing his job, the family has started a civil suit against the driver and her insurance company.
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Prosecutor will not charge woman in crash that killed cyclist : Journal Star Breaking News
Yeah, it's a sad thing. You can pretty much safely say "I didn't see the bike" anywhere in this country and it will get you off the hook.
Yeah, it's a sad thing. You can pretty much safely say "I didn't see the bike" anywhere in this country and it will get you off the hook.
It is a better system that if you are accused of a crime by ISIS, and you punishment is death on what would be a minor offence in the USA. Now ISIS has kids as young a 8 or 9 y/o doing beheadings. This too me is a bigger deal, and tells me how dangerious the savages in the middle east are.