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  1. #326
    Senior Member kpumpy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcritch
    I am opposed to sidewalk riding. It is more dangerous and makes people on the road think that is where bikes belong. But, if it is simply easier and more efficient once in a while for a short distance, why not? Usually, I just take the road. Traffic doesn't force me to the sidewalk!!!

    Original Art and Original Thoughts on Current Events and Matters of Jewish Interest at http://jewishpainter.com/
    I agree totally. I live in a small town in the upper Midwest where you can ride anywhere, and I saw a pair of adult cyclists the other decked out fully in helmets on very expensive bikes riding the sidewalks on a

  2. #327
    Senior Member kpumpy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpumpy
    I agree totally. I live in a small town in the upper Midwest where you can ride anywhere, and I saw a pair of adult cyclists the other decked out fully in helmets on very expensive bikes riding the sidewalks on a
    The send button got me too quick! Anyway, it sends a message that we all belong on the sidewalk, no matter what street it is. I understand that if you are on a busy road, sure ... I grew up in a major metro area so I do know what it's like (which is why I got outta there), and I almost got clobbered more times on the sidewalks when I lived there as a kid than when I rode on the road. But no need to sidewalk it in a small town. Sends a really bad message.

  3. #328
    Senior Member Cheshire's Avatar
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    Has anyone considered that one of the reasons that bicycling on the sidewalk is a bad idea is because of increased danger posed to the pedestrian? After all, bicycles are defined as vehicles. This is why they are able to be ridden in the street and, for example, skateboarders are not. That rollerblader that takes up the entire sidewalk? The sidewalk is where they are supposed to be. There may or may not be specific ordinaces against biking on the sidewalk, but I'm willing to bet there is an ordinance that defines bicycles as vehicles and another ordinance that prohibits vehicles from driving on the sidewalk. 2+2=4, and there you have it.

    Another point to consider is legal rights in case something bad DOES, in fact, happen. I ride in the road because if I get into a collision, I'm where I'm supposed to be. They're insurance will cover me because I was doing what I was supposed to. (Incidentally, this is also why I don't run red lights and stop signs.) If you're hit on the sidewalk, it's your own fault...or more to my original point, do you have any coverage for the person stepping out of the building right into your path that you're about to hit head-on at 15-20 mph?

    I leafed through the pages of arguments and watched it boil down to it's easier to bike on the sidewalk because you're away from those blasted cars, but now those confounded pedestrians keep getting in the way. Reminds me of what some of the road-raging drivers say about bikes. "These roads would be great if it weren't for those stupid bikes slowing me down in the blind curves." Has anyone thought about how much they might sound like the opposition?

    It may or may not be against the law, but it's common curtesy. Isn't that enough to get you off the sidewalk?

  4. #329
    Senior Member rando's Avatar
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    I and most riders who occassionally take to the sidewalk use common sense. of course you don't ride on a crowded sidewalk plowing down pedestrians. I ride a stretch of sidewalk that is most days totally devoid of any pedestrians. and it is legal. why shouldn't I?
    Last edited by rando; 08-19-06 at 11:47 PM.
    "Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen

    Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me

  5. #330
    Senior Member tomcryar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheshire
    Has anyone considered that one of the reasons that bicycling on the sidewalk is a bad idea is because of increased danger posed to the pedestrian? After all, bicycles are defined as vehicles. This is why they are able to be ridden in the street and, for example, skateboarders are not. That rollerblader that takes up the entire sidewalk? The sidewalk is where they are supposed to be. There may or may not be specific ordinaces against biking on the sidewalk, but I'm willing to bet there is an ordinance that defines bicycles as vehicles and another ordinance that prohibits vehicles from driving on the sidewalk. 2+2=4, and there you have it.

    Another point to consider is legal rights in case something bad DOES, in fact, happen. I ride in the road because if I get into a collision, I'm where I'm supposed to be. They're insurance will cover me because I was doing what I was supposed to. (Incidentally, this is also why I don't run red lights and stop signs.) If you're hit on the sidewalk, it's your own fault...or more to my original point, do you have any coverage for the person stepping out of the building right into your path that you're about to hit head-on at 15-20 mph?

    I leafed through the pages of arguments and watched it boil down to it's easier to bike on the sidewalk because you're away from those blasted cars, but now those confounded pedestrians keep getting in the way. Reminds me of what some of the road-raging drivers say about bikes. "These roads would be great if it weren't for those stupid bikes slowing me down in the blind curves." Has anyone thought about how much they might sound like the opposition?

    It may or may not be against the law, but it's common curtesy. Isn't that enough to get you off the sidewalk?









    common "courtesy" to who or to whom.............you make no valid argument one way or the other. what is it that you want to say?

  6. #331
    Senior Member Cheshire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcryar
    common "courtesy" to who or to whom.............you make no valid argument one way or the other. what is it that you want to say?
    What I wanted to say, I said. Please reread the post: there's a lot crammed in there.
    It's common curtesy to other cyclists, pedestrians, and (believe it or not) drivers to ride in the road. One of the priority rules to safe cycling that were drilled into me as a child was to ride predictably. Therefore, I ride in a consistent manner each and every time I'm going somewhere, be it 2 streets down, 2 miles down, or the next county over.
    If we (cyclists) tout, even only once a year (or where there aren't any sidewalks), the ability to be recognized as a vehicle, then you have the responsibilities to behave like one. Otherwise, we risk constantly losing access through vehicles being unaccustomed to seeing us and/or legislation that doesn't know we exist.

  7. #332
    Senior Member rando's Avatar
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    I understand what you are saying, Cheshire, it's just that I don't agree that there is one hard and fast way to ride all the time. depends on the location, the rider, and the situation.

    in my situation, with no peds on the sidewalk, I am not being discourteous to them. also, it is legal to do this where I live.
    "Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen

    Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me

  8. #333
    Paste Taster Retem's Avatar
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    i still see it as the dumbest ticket ya can get and I know people who have been ticketed
    I am dyslexic so bear with my posts.... [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #334
    Senior Member rando's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retem
    i still see it as the dumbest ticket ya can get and I know people who have been ticketed
    no ticket for it here cause it's legal.
    "Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen

    Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me

  10. #335
    Senior Member Cheshire's Avatar
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    if it's legal and your not being a speed demon around people on foot, then just watch out for washed out sidewalks. Sounds like you're being curteous. Cool!

    The logic and arguments for/against are bound to vary from area to area depending on conditions and legality. Everywhere I've lived so far has laws against riding on the sidewalk...all but where I'm at now will at least tell you not to, and I've seen people ticketed for it in at least one town. That was an eye-opener! In my current town (Asheville) the bike police are awesome...they actually do the "lead by example" thing...there's one guy who must weigh 250+ (all muscle...looks scary) who does track stands at red lights. I'm rambling. Anyway.
    Just goes to show where my experience comes from.

  11. #336
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    The problem of sidewalk biking that I have experienced:

    1) Uncomfortable: It is bumpy because of the way sidewalks are constructed, you know, pieces of concrete slabs put together. Crossing a street? I find that going over curbs after curbs is no fun at all. After a few blocks, your bum will be sored and your private part ouched from the bouncings.

    2) Driveways: It is just terrible. People usually back their cars up from the driveway into the road without seeing you (as a cyclist). If they do, they will surely honk at you with a dirty look and perhaps a middle finger.

    3) Garbage/side walk sale: At least it is terrible during garbage day. Hit one and you will think twice riding on sidewalks. On the weekend, people put their things out the sidewalk in garage sales. For heavens sake, don't ride your bicycle in sidewalks in ANY Chinatown/flea market/sidewalk sale in North America. Needless to say, sidewalks are seldom cleared of leaves in the fall or snow and ice in the winter. Sprinkers from people's front lawn is also a nuisance in the summer.

    4) Dogs: They are terrible and they can jump out of a driveway unexpectedly. They seem to be rather unfriendly to cyclists riding on sidewalks, especially people walking their dogs.

    5) Other Obstructions: They really are headaches. You see, most sidewalks are not very wide, and do not accommodate two much traffic, in addition to kids, wheelchairs, children tricyles, dogs and cats, hotdog stands, bus stop shelters, bicycle rakes for parking, human beings, baby strollers, shopping carts, advertising signs, etc.

    6) Fellow cyclists: Those on the wrong side of the road. Ridng straight towards you ..........and bump!!!

  12. #337
    Senior Member tomcryar's Avatar
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    Sidewalks here are wide enough for two bikes. It seems that the sidewalks where you live are filled with people doing all kinds of things. Sidewalks here are seldom used for anything but riding. It must be chaos where you live!

  13. #338
    Senior Member mudskipper99's Avatar
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    I ride on the sidewalk only when the street is just too narrow, or too much traffic, and im always very careful passing people. I slow to a crawl, and alert them that im coming up from behind. Unlike the jerk who nearly killed my dog yesteday, and/or seriously injured me. I was walking my dog on a sidewalk, and we were about to go around a blind corner, where there is a 6 foot wood fence blocking the view of whats coming. Suddenly a guy on a mountain bike came terring around the corner, and I just froze. No time to jump out of the way. He skidded sideways, and went down inches from my dog. He looked middle-aged, and should of known better. He never even said Im sorry, or are you ok. I asked if he was ok.

    My dog and I came out ok, unlike the poor kid that got run over by a cyclist, broke the kids leg, and kept on riding, in my city a while back. Ive also seen many times somebody elderly out for a walk, and a cyclist blows past them from behind and the elderly person looks like they are having a heart attack. Ive darn near had a heart attack, when that happens to me.

    I just wish cyclist would slow down around pedestrians on the sidewalk.

  14. #339
    Senior Member tomcryar's Avatar
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    It's the law here that cyclists on the sidewalk must give way to pedestrians. The same is true when a cyclist comes up behind a pedestrianon the sidewalk--they must give an audible signal that they are coming (paraphrased). I frequently use the sidewalks here, and I have never had any of the experiences that some self-titled experts say will happen.

  15. #340
    Senior Member tomcryar's Avatar
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    I've been riding the sidewalks here for about 3 years now....so I know what it takes to ride "on the sidewalk". the biggest problem I have found so far is garbage cans. But like everything else, there is a way around that. I think that the only argument that some people have is that it takes a lot more "skill" to ride on the sidewalk and their not confortable with the fact that they can't do it.

  16. #341
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    Cycling on the sidewalk is illegal in all the places I've lived in (in three different European countries). Bicycles are vehicles, and cycling on the sidewalk is dangerous. To the cyclist and to pedestrians. That is what I was taught at school. (At the primary and secondary schools I attended almost everybody came by bike. How to ride it safely was part of the curriculum).

  17. #342
    Senior Member tomcryar's Avatar
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    I am glad they teach safety at school there, but your allowed to ride on the sidewalk in alot of places here.

  18. #343
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    Thanks for info

    Not trying to sound dumb, but I honestly didn't know this. I just always figured the reason for not biking on the sidewalks was to not inconvenience the people walking. I have been a Moutain biker since 1993 and have just recently started to ride on the streets with a new Bianchi Volpe I bought. Thanks for the insight. NO MORE SIDEWALKS FOR ME.
    Ride on, Dude.
    The Mighty Pro-Flexer

  19. #344
    Banned Bikepacker67's Avatar
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    think that the only argument that some people have is that it takes a lot more "skill" to ride on the sidewalk
    Bwhahahahaha.

    Dude, you don't have enough "skill" to ride on the street.

  20. #345
    Senior Member tomcryar's Avatar
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    Wow. What a strong argument----I'm convinced, I wil never ride the sidewalk again!

  21. #346
    Banned Bikepacker67's Avatar
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    No, no, no... keep riding on the sidewalk and honing your mad skillz.

  22. #347
    Senior Member tomcryar's Avatar
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    I will. Thank you for participating.

  23. #348
    Member obscenesimian's Avatar
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    I come back after 1 year away from the Hot nasty roads of Vegas and This crap!!!!

    There are 3 reasons people ride on sidewalks (Other than very specific reasons involving your safety).
    1. Ignorance (this includes arguing for no reason other than to argue).
    2. Fear of Riding in the road.
    3. Faith in your ignorance.

    1. can be remedied by going on a group ride or consulting with an experienced rider who will educate through example. (Group ride preferable, commuters or roadies.)
    2. Same as 1.
    3. Faith leads to poor decisions. Stop. Ignore people who don't actually ride frequently, they are the ones who support riding on sidewalks.

  24. #349
    Senior Member Drakonchik's Avatar
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    Growing up in Hawaii, and being a member of the white tribe, it only took a few times getting buzzed by car-fulls of locals yelling "effing *****" before I took permanently to the sidewalks. Modus vivendi.

    One time in Honolulu a fat ***** tourist stood on the sidewalk with his hands on his hips and tried to scowl me off, thinking the law was his, and I just had to laugh.

    Later on I learned there were laws on the mainland requiring you to ride in the street. That was very interesting.

  25. #350
    Senior Member rando's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obscenesimian
    I come back after 1 year away from the Hot nasty roads of Vegas and This crap!!!!

    There are 3 reasons people ride on sidewalks (Other than very specific reasons involving your safety).
    1. Ignorance (this includes arguing for no reason other than to argue).
    2. Fear of Riding in the road.
    3. Faith in your ignorance.

    1. can be remedied by going on a group ride or consulting with an experienced rider who will educate through example. (Group ride preferable, commuters or roadies.)
    2. Same as 1.
    3. Faith leads to poor decisions. Stop. Ignore people who don't actually ride frequently, they are the ones who support riding on sidewalks.
    I am a regular rider (commuting to work) and I use sidewalks where appropriate along my route. nothing wrong with it. peds are few and far between on the stretches I use and besides it is legal where I live. 99% of riders I see use sidewalks on at least part of their route. People should ride where they are most comfortable, as long as it is safe, whether that's a sidewalk, BL, MUP or road. Don't listen to blowhards who think they know everything and what's best for your situation.
    "Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen

    Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me

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