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  1. #376
    Senior Member wheel's Avatar
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    A conversation.

    1.Where do you ride from?
    2. 7th street and Camelback YOU?
    1.From central and Camelback.
    2.That is great you have a straight shot on down to work.
    1. The construction sucks.
    2. What you don't ride on the sidewalk?
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  2. #377
    buh/meh
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    i really dont understand anyone defending *commuting* by sidewalk. using it as a shortcut or whatever is fine. but at least in philly you need to signal with your voice (or maybe even bell) passing every pedestrian...and you actually cant go faster than the flow of the pedestrians i think. i might be a bit off.

    ive used sidewalks as shortcuts or whatever before...and it sucks cause you have to go so slow. it takes about 2 seconds of seeing delivery people (like food or whatever...those guys that ride on the sidewalks always in the downtown areas) to realize that riding on the sidewalk faster than ped traffic is dangerous and stupid.

    and i guess that i feel riding on an unpopulated sidewalk is like going through a redlight. just another tool we use to get somewhere more easily.

  3. #378
    Biketime Biketime's Avatar
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    I say, as much as possible, especially if the sidewalk is full of walkers, put it in the street. 10-20 mph v. 2-3 mph doesn't work in this setting.

    On the other hand, if there are long stretches of sidewalk, okay. When the walk gets crowded, though, hit the streets. .

  4. #379
    Senior Member enzed's Avatar
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    I live near the beach so there alot of cruisers and mountain bike riders making use of the sidewalk. It's annoying but it's their choice.

    And what's faster? Cycling on the road or riding on the sidewalk? Even though the footpath riders might make up time by crossing against red lights (which I always stop at), whilst riding on the road I also seem to overtake them easily.

    I had to laugh the other day. I was out for a spin and noticed 3 teenagers. They were riding on the footpath (against traffic).
    One girl had a dog in tow, holding the leash by the hand. I couldn't help but think - "that looks a little bit dangerous". Not long after, the dog tugged on the leash and pulled the girl off the bike. She must have been alright, cause she got back on the bike fairly quickly. I have seen people do dumb things on a bike, but that was a classic.
    Last edited by enzed; 01-10-07 at 07:31 AM.

  5. #380
    Senior Member RomSpaceKnight's Avatar
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    I never ever ride on sidewalk. Would hate to have some senior citizen step in front of me and get killed. Bikes are the good guy and underdofg on the road. On the sidewalk we are villans and death traps.

  6. #381
    Senior Member rando's Avatar
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    we've got tons of villans here!
    "Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen

    Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me

  7. #382
    Senior Member wheel's Avatar
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7zoOBqsJzQ

    Sidewalk riders have problems with intersections
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  8. #383
    Bent Ryder Sandwarrior's Avatar
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    I couldn't tell from the video...Did that clown even look to his left before he dropped into the street?
    As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord!
    Joshua 24:15

  9. #384
    wannabe commuter Prime Directive's Avatar
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    I don't believe I have ever read why sidewalk bicycling against traffic is more dangerous than with. Can anyone explain this?

    To me it seems that there would be no difference. The dangerous areas of sidewalk riding are driveways, sidestreets, and intersections. However, traffic can turn into any of these from either direction (left or right turns), so why is it more dangerous to ride in a direction opposite of the nearest vehicular traffic that you aren't even a part of? Are pedestrians similarly at greater risk?

  10. #385
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    Sidewalk riding can be safe!

    In my opinion, sidewalk riding goes like this. If you don't know what the dangers of a sidewalk are, then it can be dangerous.some drivers try and see how close they can pass a rider and hug the curb. Then move away from the curb after they pass you.Automobile drivers act like they are the only ones out there. Many cross an intersection by only looking only one way.They don't look at sidewalks for niether bikes or pedestrians! I know this from years of experience. Also on a walk with businesses on them, they open that door and rush out of the store without taking the time to look to see if anything or anyone is coming! The fact is, people that drive like they don't care to pull their head out before getting behind the wheel are frickin' dangrous! Especially if in a GM car or truck! That goes doublefor a GM pickup.

  11. #386
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    RIGHTOUS! That's what I tried to say!

  12. #387
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
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  13. #388
    just a commuter
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    From the San Francisco Chronicle: Seniors demand cyclists be kept off sidewalks

  14. #389
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    as the USA is "the great melting pot", there can be no single standard for the nation; what works well in one area fails dismally in another. one city forbids sidewalk riding, while another condones it, and still another advocates it. there is, so far, one consensus across our nation -- all 50 states recognize the right of bicycles to occupy the road. that does not guarantee, however, that that 130 million+ drivers will do so. i have come to this personal conclusion about riding/driving in my city: on any given day, there are 50,000 drivers on the roads...35,000 do not know the traffic laws regarding bikes...and of the 15,000 that do, maybe 1-2,000 will respect that. of the 35,000, maybe 1-2,000 of them would feel justified in running a cyclist off the road. i quoted this hypothesis to a cop who rides, and he couldn't fault my numbers or my reasoning. it's just the way it is where i live.

    there are three basic levels of streets/roads in the average city -- primary arteries, the "main drags"; secondary avenues, which mainly crowd up due to overflow from the mains; and tertiary streets, mostly residential or small business. i personally will not ride main drags -- suicidal! secondaries are ok during most times of the day, as are the tertiaries. if i am required to travel along a main artery, i WILL use the sidewalk, having noted long ago and still seeing it daily, that drivers don't respect 18-WHEELERS, much less each other!

    as far as sidewalk safety goes, there are painfully few people here who actually WALK anywhere, i see more "true" cyclists daily than i do pedestrians.

    i encourage you all to study for yourself; don't take studies from halfway across the country (or around the world) as gospel. firsthand knowledge!!!
    Last edited by bigpedaler; 03-04-07 at 05:19 PM.

  15. #390
    Good Afternoon! SamHouston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Directive
    I don't believe I have ever read why sidewalk bicycling against traffic is more dangerous than with. Can anyone explain this?

    To me it seems that there would be no difference. The dangerous areas of sidewalk riding are driveways, sidestreets, and intersections. However, traffic can turn into any of these from either direction (left or right turns), so why is it more dangerous to ride in a direction opposite of the nearest vehicular traffic that you aren't even a part of? Are pedestrians similarly at greater risk?
    I can't say I've ever seen an explanation either, but at a guess I'd say it is possible there could be a greater risk from vehicles at driveways, alleys & intersections. Vehicles intersecting with the street the hypothetical sidewalk cyclist rides beside will have attention focussed on the first lane they intend to cross or join, which would be away from the oncoming Captain Sidewalk.

    The other vehicles do have a responsibility to check both the traffic and pedestrian traffic from Captain Sidewalks direction, but it seems possible that the main focus while turning would be to oncoming traffic in the lane they're crossing or joining. This could result in a bit of confusion Captain Sidewalk might regret.

    I love that nickname, Caaaaptain SiiiiideWaaalk!

  16. #391
    Senior Member Senexs's Avatar
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    rille 'pends ahn your outlook, skills. according to the conditions. road or sidewalk, 's your choice. if people on sidewalk, you yield, ride accordingly, to their walk pace or as far left, right as possible. use your judgement. if too many on sidewalk, take the road. sometimes u just want to be on sidewalk, it's the cruise pace, 'lax chill. take in the sights, scenes. 'sall

  17. #392
    Good Afternoon! SamHouston's Avatar
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    And now you've got the gospel according to a miniature Pauly Shore on pills...who apparently can't see the scene from the street just 4 inches lower than the sidealk

  18. #393
    Senior Member Bruce Rosar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Directive
    I don't believe I have ever read why sidewalk bicycling against traffic is more dangerous than with... Are pedestrians similarly at greater risk?
    Most people who are about to enter a road look spend most of their time looking in the direction where, according to the rules of the road, vehicles approach from. They don't look in the other direction nearly as often because that traffic should be non-vehicular (i.e., on foot), and therefore relatively:
    • slow
    • more manueverable
    • less dangerous
    Humantransport.org: Advocacy on behalf of humans traveling under their own power

  19. #394
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    maybe it's my military training, or the high-school dabble in martial arts, maybe it's just me -- but i'm on a 360-radar scan practically every second i'm out there. (i do it in cars and on foot, as well, so maybe it IS me)

    i have three goals when i'm out and about:

    1. get where i'm going with a minimum of fuss;
    2. not get hurt;
    3. not hurt somebody else.
    the fun i have riding is only interrupted by #'s 2 & 3 coming up short; if i get hurt, riding becomes 500% more difficult, and if someone else gets hurt, i have some responsibility there, and i feel bad about it.

    my VIGILANCE does nothing to subtract from my enjoyment of the ride.

  20. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigpedaler
    as the USA is "the great melting pot", there can be no single standard for the nation; what works well in one area fails dismally in another. one city forbids sidewalk riding, while another condones it, and still another advocates it. there is, so far, one consensus across our nation -- all 50 states recognize the right of bicycles to occupy the road. that does not guarantee, however, that that 130 million+ drivers will do so. i have come to this personal conclusion about riding/driving in my city: on any given day, there are 50,000 drivers on the roads...35,000 do not know the traffic laws regarding bikes...and of the 15,000 that do, maybe 1-2,000 will respect that. of the 35,000, maybe 1-2,000 of them would feel justified in running a cyclist off the road. i quoted this hypothesis to a cop who rides, and he couldn't fault my numbers or my reasoning. it's just the way it is where i live.
    I would venture to say that out of 50,000 motorists, about 49,950 probably don't know the law (or anything more than cyclists should keep to the right [which of course isn't really the law]). In my experience though, well over 99% will treat me as a driver of a slow moving vehicle. All the others (maybe 5 in 50,000) are generally harmless and trouble is avoided simply by paying a bit of attention. Where are you located? I find it hard to believe that motorists are so anti-cyclist in your area. I've cycled in some supposedly very bike friendly locations and some supposedly very bike unfriendly locations and have not notied a difference in how I'm treated by motorists.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigpedaler
    there are three basic levels of streets/roads in the average city -- primary arteries, the "main drags"; secondary avenues, which mainly crowd up due to overflow from the mains; and tertiary streets, mostly residential or small business. i personally will not ride main drags -- suicidal! secondaries are ok during most times of the day, as are the tertiaries. if i am required to travel along a main artery, i WILL use the sidewalk, having noted long ago and still seeing it daily, that drivers don't respect 18-WHEELERS, much less each other!
    Can you explain the bolded statement further? Having survived many a mile on main arteries, I'd like to know why you are implying that I'm trying to kill myself by riding those roads.

  21. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by joejack951
    I would venture to say that out of 50,000 motorists, about 49,950 probably don't know the law (or anything more than cyclists should keep to the right [which of course isn't really the law]). In my experience though, well over 99% will treat me as a driver of a slow moving vehicle. All the others (maybe 5 in 50,000) are generally harmless and trouble is avoided simply by paying a bit of attention. Where are you located? I find it hard to believe that motorists are so anti-cyclist in your area. I've cycled in some supposedly very bike friendly locations and some supposedly very bike unfriendly locations and have not notied a difference in how I'm treated by motorists.



    Can you explain the bolded statement further? Having survived many a mile on main arteries, I'd like to know why you are implying that I'm trying to kill myself by riding those roads.
    i'll answer the 2nd question 1st:
    i'm not implying a thing -- if the city where you live/ride is accepting of cyclists on the main arteries, then more power to ya! where i live, there are narrow lanes where drivers routinely drive at 150% of the speed limit, run each other out of lanes, are indifferent to 18-wheelers, red lights, or many pedestrians. thugs in escalades & navigators have little issue with the idea of drive-bys or open shooting on residential streets. i wish i had a dollar for every shell casing i've picked up between my driveway and my daughter's bus stop. (and i don't even live in the BAD part of town!)

    now, to the 1st: i know what i've experienced here in NE indiana. there's no guesswork about being run off he road because some b**** thinks she owns the road and doesn't want to share, or some wanna-be thug who throws a bottle at me because i don't pull over between parked cars and left him 'thump and beat' on by. there's no guesswork about being sprawled across the hood of some woman's car because she can't hang up the cell phone long enough to look around, and just guns the gas pedal. nor is it guesswork when i get attacked because i don't 'get on the sidewalk like i should', because i'm supposedly an 'a$$hole'.

    people here are anti-cycling by default -- they can't envision that other people are just that, other people and not images on a video game screen.

    did i get it all covered for you?

  22. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigpedaler
    i'll answer the 2nd question 1st:
    i'm not implying a thing -- if the city where you live/ride is accepting of cyclists on the main arteries, then more power to ya! where i live, there are narrow lanes where drivers routinely drive at 150% of the speed limit, run each other out of lanes, are indifferent to 18-wheelers, red lights, or many pedestrians. thugs in escalades & navigators have little issue with the idea of drive-bys or open shooting on residential streets. i wish i had a dollar for every shell casing i've picked up between my driveway and my daughter's bus stop. (and i don't even live in the BAD part of town!)
    Depends on what you mean by accepting. Will they run me over for taking the lane? No, but I'd argue that that's the case for anywhere in the civilized world. Do they sometimes honk or comment on me being in their way? Of course, but it's only from a small percentage and it's just noise (literally). Aside from the bullet casings (and please, don't take offense to this, but I have to think you are exaggerating a bit there), it sounds like your streets look a lot like mine, which means they look a lot like everyone else's streets too. Before my own attitude changed about how I would be accepted on the main arterials, I considered them unbikeable too. A little change in attitude coupled with a shift in lane position and suddenly I'm an accepted vehicle even though I'm going less than 50% of the speed limit (sometimes <20%).

    Quote Originally Posted by bigpedaler
    now, to the 1st: i know what i've experienced here in NE indiana. there's no guesswork about being run off he road because some b**** thinks she owns the road and doesn't want to share, or some wanna-be thug who throws a bottle at me because i don't pull over between parked cars and left him 'thump and beat' on by. there's no guesswork about being sprawled across the hood of some woman's car because she can't hang up the cell phone long enough to look around, and just guns the gas pedal. nor is it guesswork when i get attacked because i don't 'get on the sidewalk like i should', because i'm supposedly an 'a$$hole'.

    people here are anti-cycling by default -- they can't envision that other people are just that, other people and not images on a video game screen.

    did i get it all covered for you?
    I've never had anything thrown at me (that I know of, maybe they just had really bad aim) but I've encountered my fair share of "I own the road so you should move" types while cycling. Same while motoring too though. All of my truly nasty encounters have been on roads that look nothing like main arterials and barely carry any amount of traffic in comparison. I'm guessing by your "suicide" comment that you don't ride on main arterials at all and thus your bad encounters are not happening on main arterials. So why the foregone conclusion? Also, judging by the fact that you are alive and well (enough to be posting here) are your streets really that bad or are you exagerrating a bit again?

    I'm really not trying to antagonize. I just so often here how it's suicidal to do this or that on a bike yet those making these claims have no experience actually attempting to do such things. Many sidewalk cyclists tend to grossly overstate the dangers of using the roadway yet grossly underestimate the dangers of riding sidewalks.

  23. #398
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    (first post yay) Anyhow I do ride on the sidewalk (reasons as to why below)


    1. I use it to go short distances around my house since everything I want is almost 1-10 miles away.
    2. I own a Schwinn skyliner (the grayish black one with the curve in the frame)
    3. I just started riding again and don't feel comfortable riding in the street with traffic (since well... my bike isn't fast at all).

    Last but not least I feel compelled to give a explanation on to why I bought such a cheap mart junker. it was only 170? and that's about as much as I had. It was either that or my dream bike the specialized rock hopper (520) and I had no where near that much. But I now have something that I can take care of and tinker with knowing it's not some 520 dollar masterpiece

  24. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by patmaki
    3. I just started riding again and don't feel comfortable riding in the street with traffic (since well... my bike isn't fast at all).
    How do you handle intersections? Do you not consider riding through an intersection riding in traffic?

  25. #400
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joejack951
    Do you not consider riding through an intersection riding in traffic?
    Probably no more so than walking across the street means walking IN traffic.

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