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  1. #751
    Senior Member Shadowex3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by liquefied View Post
    You're right. The fastest I could ever get up to on a downhill was 49.7mph. 50 is impossible!
    You should see what happens when you get the right bike up to 88...

  2. #752
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    Sidewalk bicycling

    Here's a question for whomever wishes to try and answer it. In Canada,
    bicycles are considered vehicles. I'm not sure if that is also true in the
    U.S.A. or not....but it is up here, so....

    A vehicle can legally traverse (= cross) a crosswalk while crossing an
    intersection, and a pedestrian can traverse an intersection while staying
    in a crosswalk....but can a vehicle traverse an intersection while staying
    in a crosswalk?


    Now that these E-Bikes are becoming more common, has anyone else
    had one of these Electric Bikes blow past you from behind on a sidewalk
    that's only 48" wide, without any warning (...and they're quiet!) at 30km/h?
    I'll tell you that is enough to have my dogs (the three that I walk, all licensed
    and leashed) totally freak out.





    The city that I live in, it's illegal to ride a bicycle on a sidewalk with a wheel
    diameter in excess of 400mm (= about 16"), which allows only small children
    still learning to ride to be on the sidewalks, but the E-Bikes slip into this with
    their small wheels, and though governed (when sold and before any alteration)
    to a maximum speed of 32km/h....that's a lot of mass to clip a pedestrian on a
    sidewalk. Legally, up here in Canada anyway, these things are bicycles:


  3. #753
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jepeux View Post
    People who make a big generalizing statement of "RIDING ON SIDEWALKS IS DANGEROUS" need to realize this is different everywhere.

    Where I live.. the suburbs, riding on the sidewalk is always the safe thing to do, due to lack of bike lanes.

    Experience also needs to be taken into account. Novice bikers will ALWAYS be safer on the sidewalk.

    Weird question, but are the Pedestrians (who are suppose to be on the
    sidewalks) safer with the novice bikers who aren't comfortable or competent
    enough to be on a roadway, being up on the sidewalks? I can't picture this
    behavior creating a predictable situation for cyclists, motorists, or
    pedestrians.

    Kids with small bikes (& in turn small speeds) who are learning I can
    understand. Adults learning to ride bicycles on the sidewalks I just don't get.
    Way back in the day when I had my first motorcycle ('81 CB750K), I didn't
    practice on the sidewalks until I was comfortable on the roadways. Maybe it's
    just me, but I'm not seeing the difference, as both motorcycles & bicycles are
    considered vehicles where I live. That may not be the same elsewhere, I
    guess.


    Quote Originally Posted by gcottay View Post
    I will ride on a sidewalk under exceptional conditions, but, as a matter of self discipline shift into granny gearing. That helps with my personal rule. "When you ride on a sidewalk, ride like a pedestrian."


    Quote Originally Posted by HtheCommuter View Post
    I have to admit that I haven't read all 27 pages of posts, but from thumbing through it I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone say "it depends on the road." I'd say about %90 of the time I'm safer in the road, but there are roads that only Mormons will ride on because they think God is protecting them. In those places it makes sense to ride like a pedestrian. I can get over it being slower, getting in a hurry puts you in serious danger no matter what kind of surface/environment you're riding.

    OK...this one confuses me. How on Earth does anyone ride "like a
    pedestrian?" Trippy...To ride "like a pedestrian" would be akin to dancing
    "like a quadriplegic," wouldn't it?

    The only way that riding "like a pedestrian" on a sidewalk even makes sense
    is if you are actually walking your bicycle. I'm not trying to be a Jerk, but the
    definition of pedestrian just doesn't include the words "ride" or "riding."
    Last edited by Ron in Regina; 07-26-10 at 09:00 PM. Reason: spacing

  4. #754
    DEJA VU Covalent Jello's Avatar
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    sidewalking is FINE, just dont be a ****** and hit a pedestrian/move out of their way and don't inconvenience them. not everyone is on some crusade to hog the roads in a feeble attempt to gain bicycle clout on the road

  5. #755
    Junior Member blankcarbon_ian's Avatar
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    The road should be preferred, but sometimes a little side-walking can be necessary.... but not preferred!

  6. #756
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    The sidewalk is primarily built for pedestrians and bikes should stay on the road and it doesn't matter what speed you're in
    tips and guides about used stationary bikes http://www.dogengine.com/us/used-stationary-bikes.php

  7. #757
    Kaffee Nazi danarnold's Avatar
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    Yesterday I was finishing my ride in the usual place. I like to close with a sprint. There is a very slight downhill where pickup speed before it levels and goes uphill to my home. As I reached my peak speed, about 47 km/hr and was almost keeping up with traffic, pickup pulled out in front of me. He didn't slow me, but he then took the first right hand turn he could. I had slowed to around 40 km and had to put on the brakes. I shouted some expletive and called him a moron as I continued up the hill.

    I was close to home and passing a vacant lot and decided that if I'd pissed him off, maybe the sidewalk was the safer course for the last 100 meters. Yes, ladies and germs, I took the [gasp!] sidewalk.

    I survived the subsequent lightning strike.

  8. #758
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    Quote Originally Posted by danarnold View Post
    I was close to home and passing a vacant lot and decided that if I'd pissed him off, maybe the sidewalk was the safer course for the last 100 meters. Yes, ladies and germs, I took the [gasp!] sidewalk.
    Oh, no, tell us it ain't so! Next thing you're going to tell us is that hades has frozen over.

    Your Chainguard membership has been revoked, effective immediately.

  9. #759
    Kaffee Nazi danarnold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by High Roller View Post
    Oh, no, tell us it ain't so! Next thing you're going to tell us is that hades has frozen over.

    Your Chainguard membership has been revoked, effective immediately.
    May I keep my bell and horn? I admit I am ashamed of myself, but the fact I knocked over two old ladies using canes consoles me.
    DISCLAIMER: Nothing here should be taken as legal advice, even if it seems silly enough to have been written by a legislator, and especially not if it appears (by remote chance) to display any evidence of erudition.

  10. #760
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    Quote Originally Posted by danarnold View Post
    May I keep my bell and horn? I admit I am ashamed of myself, but the fact I knocked over two old ladies using canes consoles me.

    If someone is going to utilize the sidewalks with their vehicles, regardless
    of the local laws (legal to do so or not, etc...), I love the idea of some kind
    of warning when passing a pedestrian (especially from behind) like a
    bell or a horn or even a shout from a distance, so that a pedestrian
    can bail up onto a lawn or out into the street if the situation warrants it,
    in trying to maintain a safe environment for myself and anyone around
    me, including the cyclist.



    Though it's illegal to operate a bicycle on a sidewalk where I live, I'm very
    grateful for any warning (which seems to be the exception and not the
    rule here) when a cyclist passes me (as a pedestrian) on a sidewalk.
    The more advance warning, the better.

  11. #761
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    Quote Originally Posted by High Roller View Post
    Oh, no, tell us it ain't so! Next thing you're going to tell us is that hades has frozen over.

    Your Chainguard membership has been revoked, effective immediately.
    Quote Originally Posted by danarnold View Post
    May I keep my bell and horn? I admit I am ashamed of myself, but the fact I knocked over two old ladies using canes consoles me.
    LOL!
    You may appeal to the board and retain your membership if you can provide empirical proof that you exceeded "elder-librium" while aforementioned elder was engaged in, or otherwise making use of a walker!
    Good job though. They usually hold each other up.
    - Solo Attack: When you attack, let the sprint group lead you out. You take no points. But when they sit up, you put your head down and hold threshold. Remember: When you see Jesus you are still about 2 minutes from blacking out. Hang on.

  12. #762
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    Quote Originally Posted by danarnold View Post
    Yesterday I was finishing my ride in the usual place. I like to close with a sprint. There is a very slight downhill where pickup speed before it levels and goes uphill to my home. As I reached my peak speed, about 47 km/hr and was almost keeping up with traffic, pickup pulled out in front of me. He didn't slow me, but he then took the first right hand turn he could. I had slowed to around 40 km and had to put on the brakes. I shouted some expletive and called him a moron as I continued up the hill.

    I was close to home and passing a vacant lot and decided that if I'd pissed him off, maybe the sidewalk was the safer course for the last 100 meters. Yes, ladies and germs, I took the [gasp!] sidewalk.

    I survived the subsequent lightning strike.
    I find this to be one of the more irritating and dangerous things motorists do. I could be that they just don't care about cutting you off, or they underestimate you speed (you just on a bike, right?) and think they have time to do it.
    Odd thing is that you do that in a car and you might end up with a serious case of road rage on your hands. I guess they figure they can just drive away from you if needed.

  13. #763
    Kaffee Nazi danarnold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stig O'Tracy View Post
    I find this to be one of the more irritating and dangerous things motorists do. I could be that they just don't care about cutting you off, or they underestimate you speed (you just on a bike, right?) and think they have time to do it.
    Odd thing is that you do that in a car and you might end up with a serious case of road rage on your hands. I guess they figure they can just drive away from you if needed.
    As you say, I also suspect they underestimate the speed of cyclists. As I've mentioned before, I am embarrassed when I realize how much faster racing cyclists ride; but I take some pride at the end of my ride when I do a final sprint in traffic. I almost bought it the other day when I went trough the last intersection of my ride at about 32 mph in a 35 zone. The oncoming driver in the left hand turn lane had plenty of time to see me, but started his turn anyway. There are those moments when you don't know if you should brake or keep going. I YELLED! He stopped.

    Sometimes I just wave as I approach an intersection under such circumstances. Don't know what's best, but I've been doing it this way for 50 or so years of riding and haven't been hit yet.

    I ride with my hands over the brake levers, same as when I ride a motorcycle in traffic. I also ride as though everyone including me is a moron. It's a good bet. =o)

  14. #764
    Stooges Woman
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    I stay on the streets whenever possible but there are a couple of really bad intersections near my home, where I will get up on the sidewalk for a block or two while crossing. It's just safer for everyone that way.

  15. #765
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    If I do feel like I need to (like my previous commute, the last half-mile of which was a 4-lane road, where the limit was 35 but most cars did 45-50), I will. However, if I encounter a pedestrian, I stop, get off, and walk until I'm past them. I'm not afraid I'm going to lose control, but that way they don't have to worry about it either.

  16. #766
    Senior Member ianbrettcooper's Avatar
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    Cycling on the sidewalk is between two times and twenty-five times more dangerous than cycling in the road. That's why I don't do it. It's also illegal in most places, which is another good reason not to do it.
    Last edited by ianbrettcooper; 09-01-10 at 10:40 AM.
    1997 Jamis Aragon (converted to touring bike), two white 1974 Gazelle-built Raleigh Grands Prix, two red 1973 Gazelle-built Raleigh Grands Prix.

    All I need is a bike and a road, and to be left with the same freedom any other road user has to decide what's the safest lane position.

  17. #767
    Stooges Woman
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    I have to confess I did a long ride today in Reseda, CA and did wind up on the sidewalk a few times. Tried not to but there were a few really busy intersections where I just didn't feel safe on the street. Sorry!

  18. #768
    Senior Member Shadowex3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianbrettcooper View Post
    Cycling on the sidewalk is between two times and twenty-five times more dangerous than cycling in the road. That's why I don't do it. It's also illegal in most places, which is another good reason not to do it.
    Yeah I think we've already had this conversation a couple dozen times. It's "more dangerous" in the sense that you can count every single skinned knee as an "Injury" or "incident" and get skewed numbers, and it's illegal in most places as in "most places we specifically checked to make sure it was illegal".

  19. #769
    Senior Member ianbrettcooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowex3 View Post
    Yeah I think we've already had this conversation a couple dozen times. It's "more dangerous" in the sense that you can count every single skinned knee as an "Injury" or "incident" and get skewed numbers, and it's illegal in most places as in "most places we specifically checked to make sure it was illegal".
    Sidewalk cycling is illegal in every country I've cycled in - and I've cycled in quite a few. I've also looked it up in a few more countries and everywhere I've looked it's illegal. So from that standpoint, yeah, you're right. But I don't see you looking to check anywhere that it is legal either, so I could say the same. Sure, it may be legal in some countries, but I think it's unlikely, given that most pedestrians don't like being startled by silent wheeled steel vehicles passing within a couple of feet of them at 10mph. So I think it highly unlikely that 'most' countries on the planet allow sidewalk cycling, other than for kids.

    As for it being dangerous, the numbers are definitely in on that. I don't count injuries as 'dangerous' anyway - if you survive, you got past the danger so it doesn't really count (unless you're severely brain damaged or something). But if you don't buy the injury figures, just take deaths. In every study I've seen, deaths from cycling legally in the roadway are fewer than deaths occurring after cycling on the sidewalk. Death is pretty final, and whatever got you there is as dangerous as it can get.
    Last edited by ianbrettcooper; 09-07-10 at 10:36 AM.
    1997 Jamis Aragon (converted to touring bike), two white 1974 Gazelle-built Raleigh Grands Prix, two red 1973 Gazelle-built Raleigh Grands Prix.

    All I need is a bike and a road, and to be left with the same freedom any other road user has to decide what's the safest lane position.

  20. #770
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianbrettcooper View Post
    Cycling on the sidewalk is between two times and twenty-five times more dangerous than cycling in the road. That's why I don't do it. It's also illegal in most places, which is another good reason not to do it.
    Would you care to provide a link that cycling on a sidewalk at pedestrian speeds (which implies behaving like a pedestrian) is more dangerous than cycling on a road? Also, I question if it is illegal in most places, do you have a cite?

  21. #771
    Senior Member Shadowex3's Avatar
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    If he had cites he would've been waving them in our faces from the get go and naming countries instead of playing semantic games with what is and isn't "danger" and insisting "the numbers are definitely in" without actually proving it, likely because I already cut off the usual studies that just lump everything that can barely and remotely be considered a bicycle "injury" together. If any others even exist I'd be willing to bet they use similar tricks.

    Another clue is the contradiction, he mentions cycling in "quite a few" countries yet still behaves as though all sidewalks are the exceedingly narrow things they are here in the states. When I was in Finland just last year the sidewalks were easily as large as a traffic lane itself and had a marked section just for bicycles. All the research I've done into cycling-heavy european countries and cities seems to show that this is the norm in those areas, having a large dedicated area for bicycles which is seperated from the road more harshly than it is from the sidewalk if it is at all on that side.

    I've got a feeling that's going to get handwaved away with semantic games as usual though, playing the no-true-scottsman game with what is and isn't a REAL sidewalk.

  22. #772
    Senior Member ianbrettcooper's Avatar
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    Yeah, like Finland is the world's model for sidewalk construction! And you say I'M the one playing games. I've cycled 10,000 miles through 13 European countries, travelled by train in a few more. Heck, I was born and brought up in Europe, lived there for 28 years and I can assure you that the vast majority of European sidewalks are SMALLER than American ones.

    Look, if you want to cycle on the sidewalk, go right ahead. It's your funeral. Just don't try to pretend it's safer, 'cos it isn't.
    Last edited by ianbrettcooper; 09-07-10 at 09:04 PM.
    1997 Jamis Aragon (converted to touring bike), two white 1974 Gazelle-built Raleigh Grands Prix, two red 1973 Gazelle-built Raleigh Grands Prix.

    All I need is a bike and a road, and to be left with the same freedom any other road user has to decide what's the safest lane position.

  23. #773
    Powerful-Ugly Creature Greyryder's Avatar
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    Worst injury I've ever had riding bike, I got riding on the sidewalk. Now, I'm fortunate that I've never had a really serious cycling related injury. This was just a gash on my little finger, but it was nearly as wide as it was deep, and took hours to stop its slow oozing of blood. However, it was also the closest I've ever come to dieing. I fell out into the street, and looked up in time to see an Oldsmobile standing on its nose to keep from hitting me.

    I'm not saying that are never times when riding on the sidewalk is justified, but most times you're better off in the road, with the other vehicles.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Burton
    When some wild eyed eight foot tall maniac grabs you by the throat and taps the back of your favorite head head against the barroom wall, and he looks crooked in the eye, and he ask you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail."

  24. #774
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrisPistofferson View Post
    I'm not "VC" or "PC" or any of that, but I've never heard anything to convince me riding the sidewalk ISN'T hazardous compared to the street. Unless you're in a really laid back suburb or out in the country riding on the sidewalk is pretty effing dumb. Anybody who would be looking out for you on the road won't really think to look on the sidewalk, rendering you invisible, you have to follow pedestrian rules, making your travel time longer, pedestrians won't think to look out for you, there are tons of blind corners and such on sidewalks. It's just kind of a silly thing to do unless you're a little kid and don't know better.
    Right on brother!
    http://urbanbikemuse.blogspot.com "The Musing of an Urban Bicycle Commuter"

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    This is why I dislike MUP's so much--sharing with pedestrians stinks! They are far more inconsiderate and they do actually have the right of way, so I prefer to stay on the road and generally walk my bike on sidewalks. I also agree about the two-way bike lanes--they are generally too narrow here in NYC, and you can't really keep pedestrians off those either.
    http://urbanbikemuse.blogspot.com "The Musing of an Urban Bicycle Commuter"

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